2009/12/2 Scott Barnes <[email protected]> > Disagree with you on most of your points. You appear to basing a lot of > assumptions on bad data such as "googleing" what the other guy does. > Not really. I'm merely stating the facts as I see them and arguing that using Silverlight or other RIA platform to enhance a site should not preclude making that site accessible via standard HTML-based means for a variety of reasons.
> - Just because you spend x dollars to generate demand for a given site, > does not guarantee a high retention of specific consumer activities. > Of course not. I don't believe I said that. However, spending x dollars to do demand gen for people who can't access the site is going to lend to dissatisfaction and a waste of money. I don't see why it is so difficult for you to get your head around that there needs to be a considered balance in the use of RIA. a) Some sites absolutely require it (games, youtube, etc). b) Some sites might benefit from it, some not. Unless you're building something in category a above, I would not be mandating it. [...] > - Implying an install experience increases friction is a misguided as > well, as it will vary depending on context. > Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I've watched far less friction than a runtime install routinely kill ~$25K ad flight spends. We have built and manage applications for customers that have turned over $10M in their multi-year life time so I have half a clue in this regard at least. > JavaScript can only lead you so far in terms of generating an appropriate > level experience, where as a plug-in is an extension of this metaphor beyond > what the current browser models can carry out today. Example, Nike, Audi etc > all invest heavily in plug-in driven experiences, that don't degrade to a > JavaScript based only solution. The question for you rather than pound away > at this point is - why? why do they do that as surely this an implied > friction based of your argument below? > > e.g.: See http://www.nike.com/nikefootball/home/?locale=en_US&sitesrc=uslp > *without Flash installed.* > That's a business decision for them to make HOWEVER Flash has a market share is rather a different picture: http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html It is sufficiently close to 100% to be 100% if we're talking about v8 and above, which is not to say I think Flash is better than SL - just that your comparison is pointless (appeal to authority - just because a large shoe company you admire for software architecture advice does it doesn't make it right). > - I'm also quite curious as to how you define your ROI assessment. In that > how you determine what "friction" is defined as when it comes to putting a > solution like Silverlight in front of your customers? I'm curious as to what > rationale you use here? Is it the notion that "installation = abandonment?" > Do you have any past experience or analytical data to support your claims or > is this just from the hip? > Groan. Yeah. We have two customer accounts where we are held accountable for incomplete transactions. What do I say to our vendor manager(s) when (s)he is chewed out by the FC? Oh yeah, those 250 course modules you sold are inaccessible because the military/edu/govt department was greeted with an "Install XYZ" dialogue when they tried to access their pre-paid courseware? What do I say when someone is trying to punch through a million bucks worth of event regos? "I'm sorry, in the interests of customer experience, no one from education, the public sector, banking and finance are coming". Clearly there is benefit in providing RIA type experiences and there are many sites out there that exist because of it. Youtube being probably the most popular example, and I cannot count the number of hours I've wasted on Kongregate. I was delighted to see a few Linux people I work with regularly actually silent when I showed them the SL smooth streaming stuff Jorke's set up for DPE (including the new iPhone support in IIS7 media services). One could argue that anything from Microsoft that can actually make a Linux person stop bashing MS for 60 seconds and actually admit it is good is indeed good technology. ... but I suspect you have next to zero experience in end to end responsibility for online applications with $ or KPI attached. At the end of the day I suspect you are incapable of appreciating any view point other than your own and/or are being argumentative for the sake of it. Your priorities should be (as others have said + especially so when there are $ at stake): 1. Make the site WORK and TRANSACT for ALL users for reasons of commerce (and anti-discrimination legality as mentioned elsewhere). 2. Enhance it, by all means, using SL or whatever else floats your boat. Again, SL does some really good stuff which is not possible by other means (on the web). The adaptive streaming is awesome. JO did (we hosted it) a bit of a world's first doing adaptive streaming over Akamai for the HammerTime FB/Twitter XBOX launch and it was outstanding. We had people all over Australia getting 1.5mbps streams or better - the quality full screen on my 24inch monitor was excellent. But all of that goodness to one side, to suggest that there is no drop out from installation of a client runtime on a site and have no fallback plan is ... insane. Anyway, this is going nowhere. I'm out. David. * By "we" I mean JO and not us. :) -- David Connors ([email protected]) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
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