Oleg , Parrot, v 2.9.1 , in attachment UTF8 variant of translation
2010/12/16 <[email protected]> > Send parrot-dev mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.parrot.org/mailman/listinfo/parrot-dev > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of parrot-dev digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: README.ru translation (Oleg Sadov) > 2. Translations (Andrew Whitworth) > 3. Re: Translations (Nick Wellnhofer) > 4. Re: Translations (Todd Olson) > 5. Re: Translations (Andrew Whitworth) > 6. Re: Translations (Andrew Whitworth) > 7. Re: Translations (Todd Olson) > 8. Re: Translations (Will Coleda) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:28:33 +0300 > From: Oleg Sadov <[email protected]> > To: Nick Wellnhofer <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: README.ru translation > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain > > 16/12/2010 14:29 +0100, Nick Wellnhofer wrote: > > On 16/12/2010 10:14, Zaur Musayev wrote: > > > This is russian translation for README file > > > > > > Used charset : win-1251 (ANSI) > > > > I think it would be better to use UTF-8. > > Sure. > > Zaur, README of which Parrots version used for this translation? > > > Nick > > --Oleg > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:10:53 -0500 > From: Andrew Whitworth <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Translations > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > As part of GCI we have several translations of README available now, > many of which are being kept in branches until we figure out where to > put them. I would like to discuss that topic here. > > I would like to create a folder docs/translations/ to hold > translations. That way we don't fill up the root and other important > directories with a million translations of things. So we would have a > folder structure like this: > > docs/translations/fr/ > docs/translations/ru/ > docs/translations/pt/ > docs/translations/pt-BR/ > > ...and so on. We can talk about how to organize dialects like pt vs > pt-BR. I have no particular opinion on whether we want each dialect to > have it's own folder or to utilize subfolders. Either approach would > work fine in the short term and it would be easy enough to change back > and forth if we wanted. > > In each translation folder, we can have translated files. Translations > that have not been reviewed by a native speaker can be suffixed with > ".DRAFT" to mark those things that we haven't verified. Once something > has been verified by a native speaking dev, we can drop the ".DRAFT" > suffix. > > So what I would do right now is move some of the existing translations: > > README.espanol -> docs/translations/es/README.DRAFT > README.deutsch -> docs/translations/de/README.DRAFT > README.polski -> docs/translations/pl/README.DRAFT > > This also gives us a convenient place to dump new translations that we > receive of any file, not just README. > > Another thing I suggest we do, and soon, is add a clause to the > english README to say that only the English version of the > documentation is "official", and translations might be up-to-date. > Then we make sure that this clause is included in any translated > README to set the tone for all other documents which may be > translated. > > Input welcome. > > --Andrew Whitworth > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:41:04 +0100 > From: Nick Wellnhofer <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 16/12/2010 16:10, Andrew Whitworth wrote: > > Input welcome. > > One thing we should be aware of is that translations need to be updated. > Imagine we had README translations before the switch to git. That would > have made all the translated READMEs outdated at once and I guess it > would have taken quite some time to update them. So there should be a > way to mark translations as outdated. > > Personally, I think translations are a waste of time because it's simply > too hard to write good translations and keep them updated. We'd better > spend that time elsewhere. There has been some discussion about the > quality of the translated READMEs already. No offense to the GCI > participants, of course. I wouldn't have written better translations > when I was that age. I can only speak for the German version but as it > stands now I'd even consider it off-putting for German language users. I > can offer to fix that although I'd rather spend my time on other things. > > Nick > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 10:47:17 -0500 > From: Todd Olson <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > On 2010-Dec-16, at 10:10, Andrew Whitworth wrote: > > > I would like to create a folder docs/translations/ to hold > > > ...and so on. We can talk about how to organize dialects like pt vs > > pt-BR. > > nice. > Perhaps we should push beyond languages to locales > > Perhaps we could learn from Apple's design > (which appears to be very similar to what you propose). > > > http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/Articles/InternatAndLocaliz.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000277-SW1 > > (3rd paragraph ... 'bundle directory') > > Examples on any Mac OS X system see > /Applications/*.app/Contents/Resources/*.lproj > > > > > I have no particular opinion on whether we want each dialect to > > have it's own folder or to utilize subfolders. > > It's own folder might be less contentious. > Is yiddish a dialect of german or it's own language? > > Also Language and Locale Designations > > http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPInternational/Articles/InternatAndLocaliz.html%23//apple_ref/doc/uid/20000277-SW1 > > > > suffixed with ".DRAFT" > > nice. > > > > > Another thing I suggest we do, and soon, is add a clause to the > > english README to say that only the English version of the > > documentation is "official" > > Should we understand that the english translation would > otherwise be on the same footing as all other versions ... > that is, they would all be in docs/translations/en/ > > Regards, > Todd Olson > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:03:50 -0500 > From: Andrew Whitworth <[email protected]> > To: Todd Olson <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: > > <[email protected]<ue4r85%[email protected]> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > Should we understand that the english translation would > > otherwise be on the same footing as all other versions ... > > that is, they would all be in ?docs/translations/en/ > > I would say no. We need something in the root directory for users to > see, and the English README makes the most sense for that purpose. > It's also worth noting that English is really the "official" language > of the project. Our mailing list operates mostly in English, our > weekly #ps meetings are in English, etc. We write documentation in > English and from there is translated into other languages. This is > just a de facto standard, I think. We could vote as a community if we > like this precedent or not, but for now this really seems like how we > do business. > > Anything in docs/translations would be translations of the English, so > wouldn't include English as a translation. > > --Andrew Whitworth > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 11:33:49 -0500 > From: Andrew Whitworth <[email protected]> > To: Nick Wellnhofer <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Nick Wellnhofer <[email protected]> > wrote: > > One thing we should be aware of is that translations need to be updated. > > Imagine we had README translations before the switch to git. That would > have > > made all the translated READMEs outdated at once and I guess it would > have > > taken quite some time to update them. So there should be a way to mark > > translations as outdated. > > Very true, We always run the risk that translations get out-of-date. > This is why I think it's important to include a disclaimer directly in > README that the translations may be old and inaccurate, especially > when we make big changes like the Git/SVN migration. > > However, inaccurate translations aren't the worst things in the world. > Worse, to my mind, is saying that being a proficient reader of English > is a requirement for using Parrot. A person who speaks no language but > Polish, for instance, should be able to get our software and figure > out the basics of building and running it. There are going to be some > hardships here, but I would much rather provide *something* to help > point a new user in the right direction as opposed to providing > *nothing* for them. Any user who is interested in using Parrot should > be given a fighting chance. > > If a non-english speaker is following a poorly translated README and > gets stuck, I guess it's tough cookies. There is a language barrier > and we did the best we could. These are people who would have a zero > percent chance of working with Parrot. With a translated README, even > a poorly translated one, that chance is not zero. > > > Personally, I think translations are a waste of time because it's simply > too > > hard to write good translations and keep them updated. We'd better spend > > that time elsewhere. There has been some discussion about the quality of > the > > translated READMEs already. No offense to the GCI participants, of > course. I > > wouldn't have written better translations when I was that age. I can only > > speak for the German version but as it stands now I'd even consider it > > off-putting for German language users. I can offer to fix that although > I'd > > rather spend my time on other things. > > I won't be spending any of my time writing, reading, reviewing, or > updating translations. I don't ask anybody else to do it either > (besides asking people to review GCI submissions, which is a 1-time > thing and is for the benefit of students). If you don't want to work > on translations, don't. Your considerable talents would be much better > utilized, from a Parrot perspective, deep in the code anyway. > > We do have some developers who do want to work on translations. > Developers who are interested in "soft" work like translations might > be enticed to join the project as well if we had a better > infrastructure for it. There are some people who might only > participate for documentation and translation tasks. > > In short, having translations of things like README doesn't cost > anything for people who don't want to be involved with it, doesn't > cause us to lose developers, might actually attract new developers, > and will certainly attract people whose only interest is in > translation. I don't want to do it, you don't want to do it, but some > people do. Best thing we can do is set up a system so that these > people can get involved but do so in a way that they don't interfere > with code development. Leave it up to the translators to keep things > up to date and make sure everything is accurate. > > --Andrew Whitworth > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 12:47:59 -0500 > From: Todd Olson <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > On 2010-Dec-16, at 11:03, Andrew Whitworth wrote: > > >> Should we understand that the english translation would > >> otherwise be on the same footing as all other versions ... > >> that is, they would all be in docs/translations/en/ > > > > I would say no. We need something in the root directory for users to > > see, and the English README makes the most sense for that purpose. > > How about the root directory containing a symlink to the English README > in the docs/translations? > > > Regards, > Todd > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 13:18:28 -0500 > From: Will Coleda <[email protected]> > To: Todd Olson <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Translations > Message-ID: > <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Todd Olson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 2010-Dec-16, at 11:03, Andrew Whitworth wrote: > > > >>> Should we understand that the english translation would > >>> otherwise be on the same footing as all other versions ... > >>> that is, they would all be in ?docs/translations/en/ > >> > >> I would say no. We need something in the root directory for users to > >> see, and the English README makes the most sense for that purpose. > > > > How about the root directory containing a symlink to the English README > > in the docs/translations? > > Non starter, as not all our target platforms have symlinks. (Even if I > knew how to do that in git) > > -- > Will "Coke" Coleda > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://lists.parrot.org/mailman/listinfo/parrot-dev > > > End of parrot-dev Digest, Vol 28, Issue 22 > ****************************************** >
*Ýòî ïåðåâîä ôàéëà README Parrot âåðñèè 2.9.1 *Translated by Zaur Musayev <[email protected]> Parrot, âåðñèÿ 2.9.1 *------------------------------ Ïðàâà íà Parrot (C) ïðèíàäëåæàò ôîíäó Parrot 2001-2010. $Id: README 49584 2010-10-19 22:15:03Z cotto $ ÈÍÔÎÐÌÀÖÈß Î ËÈÖÅÍÇÈÈ ------------------- Ýòîò èñõîäíûé êîä ðàñïðîñòðàíÿåòñÿ íà óñëîâèÿõ Artistic License 2.0 Äëÿ áîëåå ïîäðîáíûõ ñâåäåíèé âû ìîæåòå ïðî÷åñòü ïîëíûé òåêñò ëèöåíçèè â ôàéëå LICENSE. ÎÏÈÑÀÍÈÅ -------- Parrot âèðòóàëüíàÿ ìàøèíà ðàçðàáîòàíàÿ äëÿ ýôôåêòèâíîé êîìïèëÿöèè è âûïîëíåíèÿ áàéò êîäà äëÿ ÿçûêîâ ñ äèíàìè÷åñêèìè òèïàìè äàííûõ. ÑÈÑÒÅÌÍÛÅ ÒÐÅÁÎÂÀÍÈß ------------- Äëÿ ñáîðêè Parrot òðåáóåòñÿ êîìïèëÿòîð ÿçûêà C, ïðîãðàììà êîìïîíîâùèê , è óòèëèòà make Åñëè âû ïëàíèðóåòå èñïîëüçîâàíèå áèáëèîòåêè ICU , âàì íåîáõîäèìî ñêà÷àòü è óñòàíîâèòü åå äî íàñòðîéêè Parrot. Ñêà÷àòü ICU âû ìîæåòå ïî ñëåäóþùåé ññûëêå: http://site.icu-project.org/download Òàêæå íåîáõîäèì Perl 5.8.4 èëè ñòàðøå , è Storable 2.12 èëè ñòàðøå äëÿ âûïîëíåíèÿ ðàçëè÷íûõ íàñòðîåê è ñáîðî÷íûõ ñêðèïòîâ. Äëÿ áîëüøèíñòâà ïåðâîíà÷àëüíî ïîääåðæèâàåìûõ ïëàòôîðì Parrot äîëæåí êîìïèëèðîâàòüñÿ áåç ïðåäâàðèòåëüíîãî êîíôèãóðèðîâàíèÿ.  ôàéëå PLATFORMS äàíà èíôîðìàöèÿ î ïëàòôîðìàõ íà êîòîðûõ Parrot áûë ñîáðàí è ïðîòåñòèðîâàí. ÈÍÑÒÐÓÊÖÈÈ ------------ Ïîñëå òîãî êàê âû ñêà÷àëè è ðàçàðõèâèðîâàëè àðõèâ ñ èñõîäíûìè ôàéëàìè âûïîëíèòå â êàòàëîãå ñ ôàéëàìè ñëåäóþùóþ êîìàíäó äëÿ çàïóñêà êîíôèãóðàöèîííîãî ñêðèïòà: perl Configure.pl Ñêðèïò Configure.pl ãåíåðèðóåò íàñòðîéêè äëÿ ñáîðêè. Ê ñîæàëåíèþ ïî ïðè÷èíå òîãî, ÷òî íàñòðîéêè Perl5 íå îïðåäåëÿþò èñïîëüçóåìûå êîìïèëÿòîð è êîìïîíîâùèê âàì ìîæåò ïîíàäîáèòñÿ óêàçàòü êîíôèãóðàòîðó èñïîëüçóåìûå êîìïèëÿòîð è êîìïîíîâùèê. Ê ïðèìåðó, äëÿ êîìïèëÿöèè C ôàéëîâ ïðîãðàììîé 'cc', C++ ôàéëîâ ïðîãðàììîé 'CC', è êîìïîíîâêîé ñ ïîìîùüþ 'CC', íåîáõîäèìî íàáðàòü : perl Configure.pl --cc=cc --cxx=CC --link=CC --ld=CC Ñìîòðèòå "perl Configure.pl --help" è docs/configuration.pod äëÿ áîëåå ïîäðîáíûõ äàííûõ îá îïöèÿõ êîíôèãóðèðîâàíèÿ è èõ îïèñàíèÿõ. Äëÿ ñèñòåì òèïà HPUX êîòîðûå íå ïîääåðæèâàþò inet_pton ñëåäóåò âûïîëíèòü perl Configure.pl --define=inet_aton Âûïîëíåíèå Configure.pl ñãåíåðèðóåò çàãîëîâî÷íûé ôàéë config.h, ìîäóëü Parrot::Config , ïëàòôîðìî-çàâèñåìûå ôàéëû à òàêæå ðàçëè÷íûå 'Make'- ôàéëû. Ôàéë "myconfig" ñîäåðæèò îáçîð íàñòðîåê êîíôèãóðàöèè. Ñëåäóþùèì øàãîì ÿâëÿåòñÿ çàïóñê êîìàíäû make. (Êîíôèãóðàòîð Configure.pl ïîäñêàæåò êàêàÿ âåðñèÿ make ðåêîìåíäóåòñÿ äëÿ âàøåé ñèñòåìû.) Ïîñëå ýòîãî èíòåðïðåòàòîð äîëæåí áûòü ñîáðàí. Åñëè âû ïðîèçâîäèòå ñáîðêó âìåñòå ñ áèáëèîòåêîé ICU (ïî óìîë÷àíèþ â áîëüøèíñòâå ñèñòåì) òî âàì ñëåäóåò èñïîëüçîâàòü GNU Make (èëè ñîâìåñòèìîå) Âû ìîæåòå ïðîòåñòèðîâàòü Parrot âûïîëíèâ "make test". Òàêæå âû ìîæåòå âûïîëíèòü òåñòèðîâàíèå ïàðàëåëüíî ñ ïîìîùüþ "make TEST_JOBS=3 test". Äëÿ âûïîëíåíèÿ ïîëíîãî íàáîðà òåñòîâ íàáåðèòå êîìàíäó make fulltest Ïðèìå÷àíèå:  ôàéëå PLATFORMS ñîäåðæèòñÿ çàìå÷àíèÿ êàñàòåëüíî îæèäàåìûõ ðåçóëüòàòîâ òåñòîâ íà äàííîé ñèñòåìå. Óñòàíîâêà Parret ïðîèçâîäèòñÿ ñ ïîìîùüþ êîìàíäû : make install Ïî óìîë÷àíèþ ïðîèçâîäèòñÿ óñòàíîâêà â êàòàëîã /usr/local, ñ ðàçìåùåíèåì èñïîëíÿåìîãî ôàéëà Parrot â êàòàëîã /usr/local/bin. Äëÿ óñòàíîâêè Parrot â äðóãîé êàòàëîã èñïîëüçóéòå: perl Configure.pl --prefix=/home/joe/bird make install Ïîæàëóéñòà ó÷òèòå ÷òî ïðè óñòàíîâêå â íåñòàíäàðòíûé êàòàëîã äèíàìè÷åñêèå áèáëèîòåêè íå áóäóò íàéäåíû, äî òåõ ïîð, ïîêà íå áóäóò óñòàíîâëåíû íåîáõîäèìûå çíà÷åíèÿ â ïåðåìåííûõ îêðóæåíèÿ (LD_LIBRARY_PATH è ò.ï.) Äëÿ äàëüíåéøåé ðàáîòû îçíàêîìòåñü ñ ôàéëàìè docs/parrot.pod è docs/intro.pod. Åñëè ó âàñ âîçíèêëè êàêèå-ëèáî ïðîáëåìû ïðî÷òèòå ðàçäåë "Êàê îòïðàâèòü îò÷åò îá îøèáêå" â ôàéëå docs/submissions.pod. Ýòè äîêóìåíòû â POD ôîðìàòå, äëÿ òîãî ÷òîáû èõ ïðîñìîòðåòü âûïîëíèòå êîìàíäó: perldoc -F docs/intro.pod ÈÇÌÅÍÅÍÈß ------- Äëÿ îçíàêîìëåíèÿ ñ èçìåíåíèÿìè ïîëüçîâàòåëüñêîãî óðîâíÿ ìåæäó òåêóùåé è ïðåäûäóùåìè âåðñèÿìè ñìîòðèòå ôàéë NEWS ÏÎ×ÒÎÂÛÅ ÐÀÑÑÛËÊÈ ------------- Parrot ðàññûëêè äëÿ ïîëüçîâàòåëåé - [email protected]. Äëÿ ïîäïèñêè íà ðàññûëêó çàïîëíèòå ôîðìó íà ñòðàíèöå http://lists.parrot.org/mailman/listinfo/parrot-users. Ðàññûëêè àðõèâèðóåòñÿ íà ñòðàíèöå: http://lists.parrot.org/pipermail/parrot-users/ . Äëÿ îáñóæäåíèé ðàçðàáîòêè ñìîòðèòå èíôîðìàöèþ â ôàéëå docs/gettingstarted.pod. ÎÒÇÛÂÛ, ÏÀÒ×È è ò.ï. -----------------------  ôàéëå docs/submissions.pod âû íàéäåòå èíôîðìàöèþ êàñàòåëüíî îòçûâîâ îá îøèáêàõ è èñïðàâëåíèÿõ. ÑÀÉÒÛ Â ÈÍÒÅÐÍÅÒÅ --------- Ñëåäóþùèå âåá-ñàéòû ñîäåðæàò âñþ íåîáõîäèìóþ èíôîðìàöèþ î Parrot: http://www.parrot.org/ http://trac.parrot.org/ Óäà÷è, êîìàíäà Parrot.
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