hey ho
hi roman
let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread
in a
dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered
through
very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at
all to
the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming
to a
point.
thanks for switching in again, I feel we don't discuss the topic
of sexism
which is in front of our sex, it is basically always there.
gender, we
keep on being fixed on gender on agressive attitudes, intolerance.
for example this
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-10/054689.html
If I remember well Matju was also molested by this.
to me this was intolerance because it doesn't allow us to get into a
deeper degree in the conversation.
It may also be known as male bonding (funnily enough it was
followed by a
funny advertisementlike max msp thread)
I've been speaking with other fellow women from the Pd convention in
Montreal about why we don't write to the list and I have to
mention some
practical factors, a different division of labor, many of the women
that can take the time to read the pd list are independent, self
employed
and doing multiple jobs and arrangements to live-- some of us are
not
'professional' programmers but we get to deal with a lot of
technology in
our work with sensors, diy, electronica, computer music, web
programming,. So, some of us feel that we don't have time to
answer it!.
I learn pd by myself and the list is very useful though. My last
problem
was creb compilation and I solved it very fast following that
thread until
the end ;)
since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so
serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously
couldn't be established.
i think your attempt was very kind and brought some peace. I
wanted to
propose to brew a drink that people make in bolivia, peru, chile,
argentina, ecuador guatemala and many places in altiplano (high
mountains)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicha
and about feminist jokes. well you know feminism is in total
discredit, is
not fashionable anymore but the conditions for women are not
equal and we
face feminicide (this is extermination of women)in various areas
of the
world. So I don't mind being sensitive to anything that is
related to
this.
and some feminist from the south are excellent, in case you would
like
some good internet radio
http://nueva.radionumerocritico.cl/news.php
I didn't start this thread on sexism because I didn't have any
particular
complaint against this list although I can remember some situations
outside the list:
- once a pd friend said to me that still no women wrote an
external, ah
yes I would like to program a external I said. He said oh well
Yves can do
that you don't have to do that.
-once a pd friend which I wanted to talk to said ah! you are the
visual
artist that works with Yves. that was ok but there is this
prejudice that
women doing pd do visuals. Ah no, I make noise.
-once a pd friend didn't include me in the logs of a pd irc chat
meeting (!)
-once a pd friend said that his professor said that women can't
do sound
because is too abstract for them, they need the materiality of
visuals
but many other times I have also been -very encouraged by people
that
participate a lot in the list and in pd meetings and pd projects
to keep
on learning and feel more confident in my autonomy towards media.
it would be better IMHO to discuss things and not avoid it but
yes that
would take time, to look into what we really mean by sexism and
ask around
why women (hey but not only women) don't participate in this spaces.
Alejandra
On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:38 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
yves,
I haven't noticed anything offensive on the list like you
describe
(maybe
you're mixing life on the streets with life on the pd-list? :))
hi David and all,
I don't know if you didn't follow some threads but here are some
examples
of greasy jokes:
yo, i am glad, that you bring some realworld cases up. i think,
this
could be a basis for a real discussion.
From: João Miguel Pais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, October 9, 2007 1:29 pm
- do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a
lightbulb? 2:
One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k.
[I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least
it's a
humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last
weeks]
i don't know, how obvious this was, but i am pretty sure, that
in the
first place it wasn't jmmmp's intention to make bad jokes, that
insult
feminists. i would rather say, that he, as probably some others,
felt,
that this discussion was going to nowhere and probably wanted to
provocate a discussion by bringing up the most stupid macho joke
(or
whatever this should be called) he could think of. obviously he
succeeded. i wouldn't count that as an example of chauvinism in the
list, since it seems, that it was triggered by the topic
'sexism' in
order to question the ongoing discussion.
accusing him of chauvinism would be too simple in that case,
though i do
not approve sending such sentences to a public mailing list,
regardless
of the intention.
I really didn't want to post another OT but to be blind about
the facts
is
just a bit too much for me to keep silent.
i think, the whole community would agree, that whatever is
troubling
someone in a serious manner, it should be brought up here.
roman
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