On Aug 16, 2010, at 10:23 PM, Claude Heiland-Allen wrote:
On 17/08/10 01:38, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Aug 16, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 16 Aug 2010, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Personally, its much more annoying if you have used [wrap] in your
patch, then your patch mysteriously breaks. Hence the error. I
could
be worded better, so I'm updating it.
can you make it a warn() instead, so that people can use "Find Last
Error" for things that are really Errors ? That's especially because
"Find Last Error" can really find only the Last one.
a broken wrap or pow~ is really an error in my opinion.
The timeline is important here, because I know that I (and possibly
others) have a tendency to remember things in a way that justifies
my own current viewpoint:
0. puredata had [wrap~] but not [wrap]
1. [zexy/wrap] was implemented
2. pd-extended imports -lib zexy unqualified
3. some people using pd-extended use [wrap] (from zexy)
4a. puredata implemented [wrap] that isn't quite the same
4b. puredata implemented "externals can override
internals" (+warnings)
4c. pd-extended removed "externals can override internals"
5. some people write patches using [wrap] (from puredata)
6. pd-extended changes [wrap] to emit warnings
7a. puredata [wrap] users get upset about the warnings from pd-
extended
7b. pd-extended [wrap] users get upset about the warnings from
puredata
The point here is that, the puredata users in 5 who want to make
patches with [wrap] work with both puredata and pd-extended without
warnings/error message, now have NO options and the suggested
solution from pd-extended BREAKS puredata:
A. using plain [wrap], puredata works fine and pd-extended complains
B. using -lib zexy [wrap], puredata complains and pd-extended
complains
C. using -lib zexy [zexy/wrap], puredata FAILS*, pd-extended works
fine
So, given that C is not an option for most puredata users, pd-
extended should certainly not be recommending this as the way to fix
patches, at least not unconditionally (afaik in some modes -lib zexy
[wrap] behaves the same as puredata [wrap], but it can do more?)
Other solutions might be:
I. allow externals to override internals, like puredata
II. extend pd-extended's [wrap] to behave just like -lib zexy [wrap]
when zexy is loaded/imported
III. extend puredata's [wrap] to behave just like -lib zexy [wrap]
and then port the changes to pd-extended
--[[-- opinion
The pd-extended users in 3 who want to make patches with [wrap] work
with both puredata and pd-extended should have known that they were
using an extension, but sadly pd-extended's decision to load
everything automatically to "make life easier for users" caused this
mess in the first place, in the end making life harder for everybody.
The incompatible suggestion smacks of pd-embrace-and-extend...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace_and_extend
--]]-- opinion
(*) with puredata and pd-zexy from Ubuntu Lucid 'universe':
$ pd -stderr -verbose -lib zexy
Pd version 0.42-5
compiled 20:01:18 Jan 5 2010
[snip]
tried ./zexy.l_ia64 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy.l_ia64 and failed
tried ./zexy.pd_linux and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy.pd_linux and succeeded
warning: class 'wrap' overwritten; old one renamed 'wrap_aliased'
warning: class 'abs~' overwritten; old one renamed 'abs~_aliased'
©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
© the zexy external 2.1 ©
© (l) forum::für::umläute ©
© compiled: May 30 2008 ©
© send me a 'help' message ©
©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©©
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pd_linux and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pd_linux and failed
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap/wrap.l_ia64 and failed
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap/wrap.pd_linux and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap/wrap.pd_linux and failed
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pd and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pd and failed
tried /home/claude/zexy/wrap.pat and failed
tried /usr/lib/pd/extra/zexy/wrap.pat and failed
zexy/wrap
... couldn't create
I hope this all makes sense, and that a more appropriate solution
can be reached before the final release version of Pd-extended-0.42.
Patches welcome. At this point I'm satisified with keeping an error
message for the 0.42 release, then downgrading it to a warning in 0.43
.hc
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther
King, Jr.
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