> especially if you use [samplerate~] for converting samples into milliseconds.
See the attached patch for two examples.
I also think, that the documention of [block~] could be expanded regarding to
how overlapping actually works. I noticed that the behaviour of overlapping
subpatches is one of the most confusing/challenging parts in Pd for beginners.
It would probably help to mention that
a) the overlapping blocks are calculated sequentially
b) as a consequence, the calculation for each block happens N times faster (N =
overlap factor).
This might seem like a truism for programmers and Pd long-time users but it's
not really obvious for beginners!
Just some ideas that came to my mind.
> Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 21:33 Uhr
> Von: "Christof Ressi" <christof.re...@gmx.at>
> An: "Miller Puckette" <m...@ucsd.edu>
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released
>
> > samplerate~ reports the sample rate, not the
> > number of samples per second
>
> I guess that's a matter of definition, which of these two is the actual
> sample rate. [samplerate~] and [iem_samplerate~] have different opinions on
> this subject. ;-)
>
> If one defines 'samplerate' as 'numbers of samples per second', then the
> behaviour of [samplerate~] could lead to some surprise in overlapping FFTs,
> especially if you use [samplerate~] for converting samples into milliseconds.
>
> To avoid any potential confusion, I think it's good to just document the
> actual behaviour in the help patch.
>
>
>
> > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 21:06 Uhr
> > Von: "Miller Puckette" <m...@ucsd.edu>
> > An: "Christof Ressi" <christof.re...@gmx.at>
> > Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released
> >
> > Hmm.. now I'm genuinely confused - all that changed last Dec. was that I
> > took
> > out trailing spaces. The actual functionality hasn't changed since 2007.
> >
> > Interior patches having a block~ object providing overlap don't report a
> > higher sample rate - i.e., samplerate~ reports the sample rate, not the
> > number of samples per second (equal to sample rate times overlap).
> >
> > So now I think the existingsamplerate~ object works fine and doens't need
> > changing.
> >
> > cheers
> > Miller
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 30, 2016 at 08:31:02PM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > > Are you sure you really want to change the behaviour instead of just
> > > documenting it? Won't this break all overlapping FFTs patches which rely
> > > on a [samplerate~] object? If one wants the 'correct' behaviour for
> > > overlapping, he/she could use [iem_samplerate~] which was designed for
> > > this very purpose...
> > >
> > > > Gesendet: Samstag, 30. April 2016 um 19:49 Uhr
> > > > Von: "Miller Puckette" <m...@ucsd.edu>
> > > > An: "Christof Ressi" <christof.re...@gmx.at>
> > > > Cc: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <por...@gmail.com>,
> > > > "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released
> > > >
> > > > I fixed the (incorrect) samplerate~ behavior... it should be now working
> > > > correctly (and thus can make do with a simpler help file :)
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 11:40:25AM +0200, Christof Ressi wrote:
> > > > > Also it would be cool to finally have a help file for [samplerate~],
> > > > > so users are more likely to understand and avoid its pitfalls (mainly
> > > > > with overlapping subpatches). I just made one, see the attachment.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just in case you actually plan to include a help patch for
> > > > > [vsnapshot~], it would be great to mention that - unlike [vline~] -
> > > > > it's only sample accurate and not subsample accurate. I could,
> > > > > however, easily make a subsample accurate version of [vsnapshot~] as
> > > > > an abstraction, so I'm wondering if this difference in behaviour is
> > > > > actually on purpose or rather a bug?
> > > > >
> > > > > Christof
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. April 2016 um 06:07 Uhr
> > > > > Von: "Alexandre Torres Porres" <por...@gmail.com>
> > > > > An: "Miller Puckette" <mpuck...@imusic1.ucsd.edu>
> > > > > Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> > > > > Betreff: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.47-0test2 released
> > > > >
> > > > > a few other things I think we could easily sneak into the next
> > > > > release, related to documentation.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1- re-include "paf~" external - it could be brought back now that its
> > > > > patent is over, The F13 example still mentions the existence of this
> > > > > object, so an external should exist or this mention needs to be
> > > > > removed.
> > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1206/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2- there's no help for [vnsapshot~], include one?
> > > > >
> > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1205/[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1205/]
> > > > > 3- no help file for [clip]
> > > > >
> > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1237/[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1237/]
> > > > >
> > > > > 4 - There are these 2 midi objects in vanilla ([midirealtimein] &
> > > > > [midiclkin]) that have no help file and are not mentioned in the
> > > > > midi-help.pd file, neither are present in the "MIDI and OSC" section
> > > > > of help-intro.pd
> > > > > https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1221[https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/bugs/1221/]
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2016-04-27 12:18 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres
> > > > > <por...@gmail.com[por...@gmail.com]>:
> > > > > yeah, apple always complains about installing pd, but once you say
> > > > > "hey, it's fine, I'm taking the risk" it never bothers you again - as
> > > > > with vanilla 0.46-7
> > > > >
> > > > > apparently something changed now and is making things harder
> > > > >
> > > > > cheers
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2016-04-27 5:15 GMT-03:00 Pierre Guillot
> > > > > <guillotpier...@gmail.com[guillotpier...@gmail.com]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > which alert window?> what is the "same" you are referring to?
> > > > >
> > > > > My mistake, I thought having the same problem than Alexandre (the
> > > > > window saying that the app comes from an unidentified developer).
> > > > >
> > > > > > no matter how many times i tell mac os it is fine to open pd-47
> > > > > > test, it keeps saying it's from an undentified developer...
> > > > > > anybody else or just me?
> > > > >
> > > > > But in fact my window says that the app comes from the web. I changed
> > > > > the privileges of the app, now PD works fine.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > >
> > > > > #N canvas 843 167 447 292 10;
> > > > > #X obj 28 35 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X obj 27 97 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X obj 27 72 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
> > > > > -1;
> > > > > #X floatatom 27 119 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X msg 26 248 \; pd dsp 1;
> > > > > #N canvas 659 314 450 300 resample 0;
> > > > > #X obj 35 85 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X obj 35 62 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
> > > > > -1;
> > > > > #X floatatom 35 111 8 0 0 0 - - -, f 8;
> > > > > #X obj 153 112 block~ 64 1 4;
> > > > > #X msg 153 85 set 64 1 \$1;
> > > > > #X floatatom 153 62 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X text 197 60 set resampling factor;
> > > > > #X obj 63 59 loadbang;
> > > > > #X connect 0 0 2 0;
> > > > > #X connect 1 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X connect 4 0 3 0;
> > > > > #X connect 5 0 4 0;
> > > > > #X connect 7 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X restore 25 186 pd resample;
> > > > > #N canvas 624 194 811 437 overlap 0;
> > > > > #X obj 37 87 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X obj 37 64 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
> > > > > -1;
> > > > > #X floatatom 37 113 8 0 0 0 - - -, f 8;
> > > > > #X floatatom 135 61 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X text 179 59 set overlap;
> > > > > #X obj 36 153 bang~;
> > > > > #X obj 36 204 timer;
> > > > > #X msg 135 87 set 1024 \$1 1;
> > > > > #X floatatom 36 320 8 0 0 1 ms - -, f 8;
> > > > > #X msg 83 203 1024;
> > > > > #X obj 83 228 /;
> > > > > #X obj 124 203 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X obj 36 175 t b b b b;
> > > > > #X floatatom 83 276 8 0 0 1 ms - -, f 8;
> > > > > #X floatatom 124 228 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X obj 83 250 * 1000;
> > > > > #X text 162 276 This the theoretical duration of a block of 1024
> > > > > samples
> > > > > for the global samplerate;
> > > > > #X text 214 204 global sample rate \, no deliberate up/downsampling
> > > > > ;
> > > > > #X obj 60 63 loadbang;
> > > > > #X obj 135 118 block~ 1024 4 1;
> > > > > #X text 118 320 This is the actual duration. Pd has to speed up the
> > > > > computation to create all the additional blocks needed for
> > > > > overlapping.
> > > > > This means that Pd is actually upsampling by a factor of N (= overlap
> > > > > factor)., f 69;
> > > > > #X text 118 365 [samplerate~] \, however \, does NOT reflect this kind
> > > > > of implicit upsampling!;
> > > > > #X connect 0 0 2 0;
> > > > > #X connect 1 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X connect 3 0 7 0;
> > > > > #X connect 5 0 12 0;
> > > > > #X connect 6 0 8 0;
> > > > > #X connect 7 0 19 0;
> > > > > #X connect 9 0 10 0;
> > > > > #X connect 10 0 15 0;
> > > > > #X connect 11 0 14 0;
> > > > > #X connect 11 0 10 1;
> > > > > #X connect 12 0 6 0;
> > > > > #X connect 12 1 6 1;
> > > > > #X connect 12 2 9 0;
> > > > > #X connect 12 3 11 0;
> > > > > #X connect 15 0 13 0;
> > > > > #X connect 18 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X restore 26 217 pd overlap;
> > > > > #X text 23 155 [samplerate~] + [block~]:;
> > > > > #X text 118 216 but it doesn't reflect overlapping, f 37;
> > > > > #X text 115 186 [samplerate~] reflects up/downsampling;
> > > > > #X text 52 70 bang to retrieve current samplerate;
> > > > > #X text 115 35 get the samplerate in a subpatch;
> > > > > #X connect 1 0 3 0;
> > > > > #X connect 2 0 1 0;
> > > >
> > > > > #N canvas 805 271 655 300 10;
> > > > > #X obj 21 163 vsnapshot~;
> > > > > #X obj 131 3 loadbang;
> > > > > #X obj 179 24 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
> > > > > -1;
> > > > > #X obj 20 1 bang~;
> > > > > #X obj 51 125 del;
> > > > > #X floatatom 21 185 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X floatatom 89 126 5 0 0 1 scroll_me - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X msg 254 51 \; pd dsp 1;
> > > > > #X text 21 206 NOT subsample accurate;
> > > > > #X obj 21 90 vline~;
> > > > > #X msg 21 66 0 \, 64 \$1;
> > > > > #X obj 21 42 f;
> > > > > #X obj 21 21 t b b;
> > > > > #X obj 131 24 t b b;
> > > > > #X obj 163 52 samplerate~;
> > > > > #X msg 131 53 64;
> > > > > #X obj 131 77 /;
> > > > > #X obj 131 99 * 1000;
> > > > > #X floatatom 70 43 5 0 0 0 - - -, f 5;
> > > > > #X connect 0 0 5 0;
> > > > > #X connect 1 0 13 0;
> > > > > #X connect 2 0 13 0;
> > > > > #X connect 3 0 12 0;
> > > > > #X connect 4 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X connect 6 0 4 1;
> > > > > #X connect 9 0 0 0;
> > > > > #X connect 10 0 9 0;
> > > > > #X connect 11 0 10 0;
> > > > > #X connect 12 0 11 0;
> > > > > #X connect 12 1 4 0;
> > > > > #X connect 13 0 15 0;
> > > > > #X connect 13 1 14 0;
> > > > > #X connect 13 1 7 0;
> > > > > #X connect 14 0 16 1;
> > > > > #X connect 15 0 16 0;
> > > > > #X connect 16 0 17 0;
> > > > > #X connect 17 0 18 0;
> > > > > #X connect 18 0 11 1;
> > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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#N canvas 773 411 790 516 10;
#X text 14 26 making a ramp inside overlapping subpatch;
#X obj 40 218 phasor~;
#X obj 270 243 vline~;
#N canvas 0 50 450 250 (subpatch) 0;
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#X coords 0 1 256 0 200 140 1 0 0;
#X restore 258 324 graph;
#X obj 33 336 block~ 256 4 1;
#X msg 88 183 0;
#X obj 21 72 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
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#X obj 41 123 samplerate~;
#X obj 21 98 t b b b;
#X obj 42 181 / 256;
#X obj 31 264 tabwrite~ \$0-plot;
#X obj 42 151 * 4;
#X text 74 153 multiply by overlap!;
#X msg 268 214 0 \, 1 \$1;
#X obj 261 271 tabwrite~ \$0-plot;
#X obj 247 73 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1
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#X obj 296 121 samplerate~;
#X obj 247 99 t b b b;
#X obj 294 144 * 4;
#X text 324 143 multiply by overlap!;
#X obj 268 168 /;
#X msg 264 125 256;
#X obj 268 190 * 1000;
#X connect 1 0 10 0;
#X connect 2 0 14 0;
#X connect 5 0 1 1;
#X connect 6 0 8 0;
#X connect 7 0 11 0;
#X connect 8 0 10 0;
#X connect 8 1 7 0;
#X connect 8 2 5 0;
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#X connect 15 0 17 0;
#X connect 16 0 18 0;
#X connect 17 0 14 0;
#X connect 17 1 21 0;
#X connect 17 2 16 0;
#X connect 18 0 20 1;
#X connect 20 0 22 0;
#X connect 21 0 20 0;
#X connect 22 0 13 0;
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