There is only one meaning of the word "FALSE" as far as I know. NOT TRUE.
What you don't seem to understand is that there are many instances where an item listing has made false claims as a matter of FACT, not opinion, and that is what I am mostly reffering to (there are cases where even opinion could be argued too but that's another issue for another day.) i.e you buy a size XL T-shirt and is says right on label size L. things like that. "working" items that don't work, Used items (obviously worn) sold as new, sealed items delivered unsealed, complete items actually missing parts, etc, etc I could go on and on. Just because these were sold at ebay auciton doesn't mean the buyers don't deserve full refunds or cant renegoiate prices paid which is what you claimed to be the case just because they were sold in auction format. That isnt true, its false. And this is huge, it DOES NOT matter whether the person lied or was mistaken if the claims were false, if it did every crook out there would just lie and then "play dumb" like he didn't know when he really did. A mistake is no better than a lie, the seller has to take responsibility for truth in their listings. If they were mistaken then they have to refund/renoegoiate with the seller. The seller made the mistake in that case, not the buyer... JCO -----Original Message----- From: Wigwam Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:02 PM To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Opinions wanted, ebay item condition > Damn you are so wrong on this its too much to list but > the key is FALSE ADVERTISING/LISTINGS on ebay are just > that FALSE. Yes. We only disagree on what 'FALSE' means. You seem to think it is anything you don't like. > It does not matter one bit whether the > seller lied or just didn't know ( "honest mistake" > as you call it ). Yes, it does. > Its still false and the seller > has to FULLY refund /renegoiate in those cases. No, they don't. > It > doesn't matter to the buyer whether it's a lie > or a mistake, they didn't get what they bought and > that's a refund issue. I bought a Pentax Spotmatic in 'working condition'. If it does not work, then yes, I get my money back. I bought a Pentax Spotmatic in 'good condition'. What does that mean, exactly? If I don't agree what good means, do I get my money back? Nope. > A U C T I O N format > doesn't matter or make it OK for a seller to make false claims. Right. No false claims. You can't say it is new if it is old. You can't say it is real if it is fake. I agree. Saying something 'appears to work' or 'looks good to me' or 'is in pretty good shape for it's age' is NOT A FALSE CLAIM if the seller honestly believes that. Get it through your head. > EBAY Auctions are not what you > very mistakenly think they are. Yes they are. You have given no evidence to the contrary. > Just to > confuse you more, not all ebay listings are > even pure auctions any more, many have "But it now" > options. You're right, but you didn't say it correctly. There are online retailers who only sell via Buy It Now. They are not participating in an auction. Like a vendor at an auction who is selling hot dogs, I guess. They're real retail, not Caveat Emptor auctions. You got me on that one. > Do you somehow think it makes a difference > on what is acceptable to ship in those cases > because it wasn't an auction ??? No, you're right. If the seller is a retailer, selling only via Buy it Now, that's not an auction and the rules are different. > And regarding AS-IS auctions, most people know > what they are getting into on them and bid/buy > only on visuals but all things are not visual > then the seller is STILL OBLIGATED to meet claims > made for the items EVEN IF AS-IS. i.e. they > cant say a 10 foot extension cord and then ship > a 6 foot one or say a 16 LB bowling ball and then > ship a 12LB one. I agree. "As is" is not a universal exculpator. However, if they say "6 foot extension cord, unknown condition" and he also says "As Is" in his listing and it is 6 feet long but it does not work, how did he lie to you? He could have tested it (and maybe he did, some sellers do lie), but how will you know that? If you put in a low bid on the CHANCE that it might work, and it does, goody for you. If you put in a high bid, expecting that it WOULD work and it did not, well, you lose. Sorry if you don't like that. > Get it? This is mail order. Nope, it's not. > The seller always has to meet all claims > in his ads....EVEN AS-IS ADS. Bullshit. You could not be more wrong.
