> > From: "Bob Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2007/10/19 Fri PM 01:17:23 GMT > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" <pdml@pdml.net> > Subject: Re: Completely and totally OT: Politics > > Comments on the T34 from somewhere in my memory suggest it was better > because of wider treads. It was more able to negotiate soft ground. > (maybe from 900 Days - the Seige of Leningrad) (The Russians built > those tanks while the Germans shelled the factory!) > Regards, Bob S.
Probably more that it weighed a lot less then the PanzerV. I think that one came out of the factory about 30% heavier than design weight. > > > On 10/19/07, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 2007/10/18 Thu PM 06:16:54 GMT > > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <pdml@pdml.net> > > > Subject: Re: Completely and totally OT: Politics > > > > > > The arms of Krupp is not entirely correct. The invasion of France was > > > carried out using a large number of "training" tanks, (Panzer I and II's > > > which had very small guns and light armor, the I in fact had no gun at > > > all in the heavy weapon category, it was armed with twin .30 cal, > > > (7.62mm) machine guns), there weren't enough of any front line German > > > tanks to go around, and large numbers of Czech Tanks were pressed into > > > service. A number of weapons thought to be quintessentially German were > > > really of Czech origin. Russian Tanks were never that much better than > > > German, in fact the vaunted T34 while a very good tank was most > > > effective because of it's large numbers not it's inherent superiority, > > > it was actually a prewar (1937-38 or there about) design, that began to > > > enter service in late 1940 to early 1941.. The Germans actually were the > > > ones who created the mid war designs, the Panther and Tiger were both > > > answers to the T34. If they could have been built in sufficient numbers, > > > (the Russians out produced the Germans in tanks by somewhere between > > > 10-20 to 1, most being the T34, because they were good enough), the > > > Russian T34 probably wouldn't have the reputation it has today. ... > > > > Wahoo! Tank thread! Just been discussing this elsewhere.. > > > > The PanzerV (developed to combat the T34) was, indeed, in some ways a > > better tank. In fact, in only one way - it was much better armed. In a > > direct confrontation it would beat both the T34 and the "Tommykocher" > > Sherman. But... > > > > It was massively more complex and expensive to build. It was also not > > designed well for field maintenance. It had a petrol engine, making it > > quicker but much more thirsty then the opposition. Finally, the slave > > labour that was forced to build it has a pretty good programme of sabotage > > going. A recent rebuild of one found oil galleries not completely drilled, > > cigarette butts in oilways, handfuls of swarf in gearboxes. > > > > Once the T34 was rearmed with an equivalent artillery piece, it was more > > then a fighting match for the PV, which had never been a match for the T34 > > as a functional fighting machine. > > > > > > > > Bob Sullivan wrote: > > > > Adam, > > > > Based on the "Arms of Krupp" book, Hitler had the war machine designed > > > > and under construction long before overtaking any Chechoslovak > > > > stockpiles. By the end of the war, the German tanks (pre '40's > > > > designs) were outmatched by the Russian tanks (newer, better armored > > > > designs). Whether or not some resistance early on would have derailed > > > > Hitler is pretty speculative. > > > > Regards, Bob S. > > > > > > > > On 10/18/07, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> frank theriault wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> On 10/18/07, Adam Maas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Bob, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It's an all too common opinion in post-Trudeau Canada. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> It's also not shared by all Canadians. > > > >>>> > > > >>> The sad thing is that war ~isn't~ a "last resort" these days > > > >>> (competent actors or no)... > > > >>> > > > >>> cheers, > > > >>> frank > > > >>> > > > >>> ps: what's Trudeau got to do with it? > > > >>> > > > >>> -f > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> As an aside, the history of WW2 would be a lot different if the > > > >> British and French governments hadn't used violence as a last resort. > > > >> There's a lot of evidence to indicate that a robust response to either > > > >> the Remilitarization of the Rhineland or the Occupation of the > > > >> Sudetenland would have resulted in a quick coup removing Hitler. > > > >> > > > >> It's certain that most of the tanks that rolled into Poland in > > > >> September 1939 were Czech, the Weremacht was in many ways an empty > > > >> shell until the takeover of Czechoslovakia gave the Germans access to > > > >> the Czech's stockpiles of armor and equipment. > > > >> > > > >> Violence is the last resort of the incompetent only because the > > > >> competent resort to it sooner. Of course, it is far too often used as > > > >> a first or second resort, which is tragic. > > > >> > > > >> -Adam > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > >> PDML@pdml.net > > > >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > > >> follow the directions. > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Remember, it?s pillage then burn. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > > PDML@pdml.net > > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > > follow the directions. > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email > > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam > > > > > > -- > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > > PDML@pdml.net > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > > follow the directions. > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.virginmedia.com/email Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software and scanned for spam -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
