Andrew, I have been a Protel critic, but I still find it to be solid, stable and infinitely configurable, in its P99SE and AD6 editions. And I am not paid for this. Igor
> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 15:10:48 -0400> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: > [email protected]> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Open source equivalent to Protel> > > We use 2004 here at Avtron. Same conclusions. It is one of the most rock> > solid applications I've ever used. I've been using it for as long as> I've > been using Protel. It's not as tailored to EDA, but unlike Protel,> it is > solid, stable, and infinitely configurable.> > Sad to hear that it uses the > new virtual dongling that has become the> norm. Understandable from the > software giant's POV (need I mention the> wholesale and factory-sized IT > thievery that certain far-east nations> have and are engaging in?), but sad > all the same. > > >-----Original Message-----> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Smith> >Sent: Thursday, April > 26, 2007 2:51 PM> >To: Protel EDA Discussion List> >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Open > source equivalent to Protel> >> >Geoff,> >> >We have AutoCAD 2007. As far as > major bugs, there are none to report.> >It has on rare occasions locked up on > me. I have used AutoCAD > >11, 12, 2000, 2004 and it has always been a very > stable > >product. There have been only 2 patches released for 2007. > > >Printing has gotten incrementally easier with each release. > >They added a > PDF printout that is decent but could use a > >little improvement as far as > resolution is concerned. Moving, > >editing, rotating and dimensioning have > been marginally > >improved over time. Editing blocks has gotten much > easier.> >Most of the old commands from the DOS versions still work. > > >Supposedly some of the biggest improvements have come in 3D > >but we rarely > use that here. Customizing the menus and > >toolbars has been greatly > improved along with text editing and > >can now be linked to spreadsheets. I > know that some claim it > >is not intuitive for the casual user, but I have > found it to > >be a powerful, useful, and very stable piece of software.> > >What I dislike the most about AutoCAD is that I can no longer > >have a > second copy of it on my home system unless we purchase > >their subscription > plan, a $495 adder. > >> >Regards,> >Steve Smith> >Product Engineer> >Staco > Energy Products Co. > >Web Site: www.stacoenergy.com> >& www.stacopower.com> > >> >DISCLAIMER AND/OR CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > >This message, including any > attached materials, is intended > >solely for the use of the individual or > entity to whom it is > >addressed and may contain information that is > privileged, > >confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. > > >If the reader of this electronic mail transmission is not the > >intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any > >dissemination, distribution, > or copying of this communication > >is strictly prohibited. If you have > received this > >communication in error, please e-mail or call Staco Energy > > >Products Co. at (937) 253-1191. Thank you for your cooperation.> >> >> >> > >-----Original Message-----> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >[mailto:[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> >On Behalf Of Geoff Harland> >Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 > 11:18 PM> >To: [email protected]> >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Open source > equivalent to Protel> >> >I have never tried actually installing and > evaluating gEDA as > >of yet (either under Windows or Linux), but while > reading some > >documentaton hosted by its website (late last year, IIRC), I > > >gather that the "standard" version of the PCB package for gEDA > >(i.e. in > which no modifications have been made to any of its > >source code) does not > provide a bottom side Paste Mask layer > >(? and doesn't provide a bottom > side Overlay layer either ?).> >> >So even though I personally loathe > assorted shortcomings > >within Altium Designer, I don't think that the > intellectual > >giants within Altium's management have too much to worry > about > >as far as competition from gEDA is concerned, or at least not > >for > the time being. (There are doubtless at least some > >sufficiently determined > people who are prepared to jump > >through all of the hoops necessary to > install and subsequently > >use gEDA, and who are also happy with its > capabilities, but I > >also surmise that such people would be unlikely to > purchase AD > >in any case.)> >> >I can't recall its name or other details > right now, but I do > >have recollections of hearing about yet another open > source > >and/or freeware PCB design application which runs on Windows > >(or > else either on Windows or Linux). However I would still be > >surprised if it > is significantly superior to gEDA as far as > >its capabilities are > concerned, so for the time being, anyone > >wanting a "serious" PCB design > applications still has to > >decide which of the commercial products is > "least vile" in nature.> >> >In that regard, the market for PCB design > applications is > >relatively small (compared with the market for other > > >applications such as word processing, etc), and it is also not > > >straightforward to write the source code for such applications > >if they > are to be of a truly satisfactory nature (as far as > >both user-friendliness > and capabilities are concerned). So > >while it would be nice to think that > AD could be a lot less > >buggy than what it is, it also seems that the odds > are still > >stacked against its users ever getting to enjoy such an > outcome.> >> >It has been many years since I last used AutoCAD (the last > > >time I did so, it was still a DOS version), but my > >recollections of using > it was that it didn't seem to be > >afflicted with bugs of a "basic" or > "fundamental" nature > >(unlike another certain application), and as such, I > am > >wondering if there is anyone here who has had any experience > >in > using the most recent version (or otherwise another > >relatively recent > version), and is thus able to report on what > >it is like, as far as bugs, > defects, and other shortcomings > >are concerned. I would be surprised to > hear that it is totally > >bug-free, or even that bugs are almost unheard of, > but I am > >still curious as to whether users have to contend with defects > > >which afflict elementary procedures (such as creating > >printouts, moving > and/or rotating objects, etc), and/or > >whether they have to jump through > hoops, or otherwise contend > >with commands of a "clunky" nature, when > undertaking > >elementary procedures.> >> >I am well aware that AutoCAD is > not a cheap application to purchase.> >That said, nor is another certain > application in this day and > >age, so it would definitely be interesting to > learn whether > >AutoCAD is "shipped" to a distinctly higher standard...> >> > >Regards,> >Geoff Harland.> >> >> >>I agree.> >>> >>If it's the tired and > blue "Kill Bill" mentality so prevalent amongst > >>certain > anti-establishment quarters, perhaps someone might even go so > >>far as to > suggest that the disgruntled, aging hippy boss get some > >>professional > psychological assistance with his um...problems.> >>> >>Or I'd suggest that > you consider a job change in the near future, as > >>he's likely to screw > your career without a second thought in order to > >>further his political > objectives. After all, you're talking about > >>someone who wants to drop a > package which your company already > >>presumably owns (gleaned from your > post) for a relatively unproven > >>open-source product, operating on a > platform which itself to > >this date > >>has not really been proven to be > economically viable for > >circuit design> >> >>and analysis outside of the > hobbyist realm.> >>> >>Even the entry that Mr Selfridge claims as a Linux > equivalent > >is a hack> >> >>in comparison to Protel...8 layers?> >>> >>And > I'm a fan of open source. But let's get real.> >>> >>aj> >> >Send instant > messages to your online friends > >http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > > > > >____________________________________________________________> >You are > subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum> >> >To Post messages:> > >mailto:[email protected]> >> >Unsubscribe and Other Options:> > >http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com> >> >Browse or > Search Old Archives (2001-2004):> >http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> > > >Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current):> > >http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >> >> > > > >____________________________________________________________> >You are > subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum> >> >To Post messages:> > >mailto:[email protected]> >> >Unsubscribe and Other Options:> > >http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com> >> >Browse or > Search Old Archives (2001-2004):> >http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> > > >Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current):> > >http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> >> >> > > This e-mail > transmission and its attachments may contain information from Avtron > Manufacturing, Inc. that is proprietary, privileged and/or confidential and > is intended exclusively for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any use, > copying, retention or disclosure by any person other than the intended > recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly prohibited. If > you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > by return e-mail and delete all copies.> > > > ____________________________________________________________> You are > subscribed to the PEDA discussion forum> > To Post messages:> > mailto:[email protected]> > Unsubscribe and Other Options:> > http://techservinc.com/mailman/listinfo/peda_techservinc.com> > Browse or > Search Old Archives (2001-2004):> http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL > PROTECTED]> > Browse or Search Current Archives (2004-Current):> > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]> _________________________________________________________________ Invite your mail contacts to join your friends list with Windows Live Spaces. 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