Yes, very nice outline, Thomas, of the strength of the 'melting pot' tactic,
which I support. And that's why I'm against the current focus on
'multiculturalism' and 'identity politics' which is all the rage in America and
Europe now. It actually retains and fosters those ancient irrational tribal
hatreds. And any 'progressive' who, in their multicultural/identity political
sanctimonious zeal doesn't understand that these minority enclaves - which are
kept insular by multiculturalism/identity politics.... can be even more racist,
bigoted and irrational than any majority...is naive in the extreme.
Edwina
----- Original Message -----
From: Thomas
To: Edwina Taborsky
Cc: Benjamin Udell ; <peirce-l@list.iupui.edu>
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
Edwina ~
Germans and the other groups you listed have all assimilated into American
society, and none of the nationalities or races have proved particularly
intractable. The melting pot is imperfect, but it does a good job of
challenging cultural myths and ancient hatreds that seem to continue for
centuries in closed/insular societies. The demagogues of America appeal to the
down-and-out of most/all nationalities -- almost as though they're broad-minded
humanists. That reveals a focus on laws and justice, as opposed to settling
scores with ancient enemies.
By contrast, Europe, Asia and the Middle East are comprised of far more
insular societies. Historically most people there have been poor and ruled by
often-brutal and almost-always deceitful autocrats who coopted the church to
hold onto power. Little wonder that warlords and terrorists have played such a
big role in their political histories.
Regards,
Tim Wyrick
On Jul 10, 2015, at 6:05 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote:
Yes, stereotypes are basic to our identification of 'identity groups' -
whether it be Jews, Italians, Germans, Russians, Chinese. Such distorted and
simplistic images-of-the-other are found among all people. Americans are viewed
by Europeans as...and so on. But the few key variables of behaviour that we
understand to define 'that nationality' are not, in my view, an explanation
for the rise of fascism in Germany.
That is, my point is that we are all as human beings, susceptible to
emotional blindness in our political and societal views; we aren't at all
'rational beings' when dealing with political and social affairs. Therefore, if
the economic and societal order breaks down, I'd say that we are all
susceptible to fascism. There is a critical threshold when the rule of law, the
political order, the societal order, the economic viability breaks down - and a
power-bloc can move in and take over..and then, impose its fascism.
The ideology of 'old Germany', with its aristocracy, its ideals of governance
had little to do with the ideology of 'pure race' of Nazism, nor the Nazi focus
on nationalism as a biological construct and the contempt for 'lesser beings'.
After all, the British upper class had a similar focus as the old Germans on
'noblesse oblige', strict rules of behaviour, a military career and so on - and
were not susceptile to fascism. [But many were susceptible to
communism/socialism!].
There were plenty of people in the old upper class and the middle class of
Germany who were opposed to fascism and Nazism.
Yes, the horrors of WWII did bring a requirement that US military bases
remain in Germany after 1990 reunification - but, logically, such a demand by
the French and others cannot PROVE that, 'Germans are basically capable of
moving back into fascism' without such a presence. That is - the modus ponens
statement of:
IF there are bases, THEN, they will be peaceful"
can't be turned around to declare:
'They are peaceful; that's because there are bases'. (Fallacy of Affirming
the Consequent).
So- I am not convinced that the German people are predisposed to fascism, nor
that Hitler's rise was a mysterious event. I remain focused on the economic,
political and societal infrastructure - which can decimate a culture's deep
beliefs in a decade. We have our own examples.
Edwina
----- Original Message -----
From: Benjamin Udell
To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive Logic
Having grown up in the 1960s on Manhattan's West Side, when WWII wasn't so
long ago and a German accent was immediately associated to movies and TV series
about Nazis, I admit that I may be unduly predisposed to regard certain strains
of militarism, morality by government fiat, and 'just taking orders' as
problematic aspects of the early-20th-Century German culture. Also I read
_Roots of the Nazi Mentality_ when I was an impressionable kid.
But I don't think that power affairs (military+politics) and economics are
everything against culture (glamour!) and society (status!) as some sort of
zero. You've a case to make there, Edwina, if you wish to convince people. The
problematic character of early-20th-Century German attitudes - militarism,
morality by government fiat, 'just taking orders' - have not gone unnoticed by
anybody around Germany. The reunification of Germany in the 1990s involved US
guarantees of maintaining military bases in Germany, guarantees sought by the
French and other governments.
Best, Ben
On 7/10/2015 3:16 PM, Edwina Taborsky wrote:
No, Helmut, I don't think that the German people 'had more barbaric
instincts than other people'. We are all similar in our capacity for emotional
irrationality and violence. When a societal system of law and order breaks down
for various reasons, i.e., is not providing security, is not functioning in a
just and fair manner, is corrupt, , is subverted by a higher authority - then,
the 'cooling off' phase of rational examination of the situation is rejected -
and we get either a mob, or a 'controlled mob, i.e., a band of thugs'.
Democracy is not, in itself, a barrier against barbarism. As Tolstoy
said, 'Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority shares in it'.
Democracy, to be just, requires a constitution and the rule of law, set up as
created by men, and capable of change by men, but applicable to all.
Edwina
----- Original Message -----
From: Helmut Raulien
To: Ozzie
Cc: Edwina Taborsky ; <stever...@gmail.com> ; Peirce List
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 2:51 PM
Subject: Aw: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Recently published: Hitler and Abductive
Logic
I agree, that his "abduction-type message is" only "a big part of that
success". Tenacity, authority and apriori also are. I wrote, that a false
abduction to laypersons of logic can look like a proper conclusion. But not all
Germans were too much laypersons to see the lies (eg. Heidegger). Nevertheless
they followed him. Putting the emphasis on Hitlers intelligent ways of
manipulation should not assign him a bigger part of the guilt, and lessen the
guilt of the Germans. They had more barbaric instincts than the other peoples,
and were no democrats. Other in than other nations, there has not been a
democratic constitution initiated by the people.
Best,
Helmut
Ozzie <ozzie...@gmail.com>
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