Jon- you and I have basic disagreements on our interpretations of Peirce. I won't get into a discussion with you if you - rather than acknowledging our disagreements - insist that your view and your interpretation is the only valid one - an action which you constantly do insist on. After all, that is no longer a discussion but merely your preaching. I'm not interested in being 'preached at'.
There is, as I said before, a difference between the singular sign/representamen which acts as mediation and the triadic Sign. The latter includes all three Relations; that between the Representamen-Object; the Representamen in itself; and that between the Representamen- Interpretant. The triad is the Sign, it is a semiosic process and is an action of Mind. All three categories can be expressed in this triad - and their expression has nothing to do with our human thinking about Firstness or Secondness. Thought, as I read Peirce, is a triadic or semiosic process, and can't be reduced to only one modal category of Thirdness. Thirdness is the category of developing habits of form, or commonalities or generalization. This is done BY THOUGHT but thought cannot be, in my view, reduced to merely habits-of-form -so I reject defining thought as Thirdness. This thought is a process that requires that full semiosic triad. Both the generation of these habits and the resultant further triad....requires all three categories to develop both. Therefore, I disagree with your interpretation of Peirce that 'all thought is only Thirdness'. Again, I see Thirdness as the habits-of-form, the development of generalities - but, again, these habits are 'alive'' they emerge within the active-actions of the other two modal categories. Therefore, Mind and its thought-processes, as I read Peirce, requires ALL three categories. And, as well, I'm uncertain of your comment, where you seem to suggest that Interpretants must be in the mode of Thirdness. Since I'm sure you know there is only one of the ten classes where the Interpretant is in a mode of Thirdness - then, I'm not sure of your meaning. Now- if you are going to insist that your view alone is The Right View of Peirce - and my view is a deranged, degenerate personal one - may I suggest that we end this exchange right now. I'll engage in a debate that acknowledges that we may each have a very different perspective on Peirce - but I won't get into a situation where you Inform Me that you alone have The Right View. Edwina ----- Original Message ----- From: Jon Alan Schmidt To: Edwina Taborsky Cc: Peirce-L Sent: Friday, September 09, 2016 7:52 PM Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Theory of Thinking Edwina, List: One of the ways in which Peirce derived his categories was by means of phenomenology; or as he called it, phaneroscopy, because it involves examining the phaneron--"the sum of all we have in mind in any way whatever" (EP 2.362). (By the way--is this what you mean by "the analysis of reality"?) Thus, in that specific sense, we can loosely say that all three categories pertain to mind or thought; after all, we can and do routinely think about Firstness and Secondness, as well as Thirdness. But that is obviously not what I mean when I say that mind itself or thought itself IS Thirdness. I trust that no one will dispute that Peirce clearly and consistently affirmed all three of the following propositions. a.. All thought takes place by means of signs. b.. Every sign represents an object to an interpretant. c.. Representation is (only) Thirdness. It follows deductively that all thought is (only) Thirdness. Note that in the third bullet, I use the word representation as distinguished by Peirce from quality (Firstness) and relation or reaction (Secondness)--not "representations," which could just be a synonym for "signs." I am well aware that a sign, both in itself and in its relations, can be classified in any of the three categories. However, when it comes to the interpretants, only those that are classified under Thirdness are possible, actual, or habitual thoughts; feelings correspond to Firstness, and actions correspond to Secondness. Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:32 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: Clark, list: yes, that's my point. I disagree with Jon with his confinement of Thought to Thirdness. I consider that Mind, which is 'thought', is an action of all three categories. To focus on Thirdness as Thought, which, again, to my understanding, is Jon's view - is more akin to Hegel. All three cognitive modes are 'the semiosic process', i.e., the action of reason, of thought. Thirdness is an action of habit formation, i.e., of generalization, of 'predicate formation' 5.102. Obviously, it is a necessary action in the formation of an actualization, a discrete unit, but I consider that thought requires all three modes. Edwina ----- Original Message ----- From: Clark Goble To: Peirce-L Sent: Friday, September 09, 2016 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Theory of Thinking On Sep 8, 2016, at 3:41 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: My use of the term 'universal' refers to its use in the analysis of reality. i frequently refer to that 4.551 quote about Mind - but, in my view, Mind is not the same as Thirdness. Thirdness is a semiosic process, one of the three categorical actions of the actions of Mind - but the two are not identical. I remain convinced that some terms are used in such a variety of incompatible ways in philosophical history that they come to have a baggage that makes them perfect tools of confusion. I suspect mind is one of those terms. Quite frequently I wish we could do away with the term entirely. For all the problem of neologisms in philosophy (including Peirce’s own use of them at times) they do avoid that baggage. Your point is very important. I can’t recall if someone quoted it already but this quote of Peirce’s is useful. “I desire to defend the three Categories as the three irreducible and only constituents of thought.” (EP 2.165 “The Categories Defended”) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
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