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}Gary R, list
I don't conflate phenomenology with mathematics or with semiotics! I
gave a clear quotation about the difference between experience and
analysis:
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Instead, my understanding is that, as Peirce writes, we must
discriminate "between an inductive and a hypothetic explanation of
the facts of human life. We have seen that every fact requires two
kinds of explanation; the one proceeds by induction to replace its
subject by a wider one, the other proceeds by hypothesis to replace
its predicate by a deeper one. We have seen that these two
explanations never coincide that both are indispensable….7.581
I interpret or misinterpret this to mean that Consciousness is the
action within the phaneroscopy and operates within the three modes as
outlined in 7.551 et al, which is that of primarily acknowledging the
'percepts', and associating or classifying them, and Mathematics
provides the hypothetical explanations, which makes them
'teleological or purposive.7.570.
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The difference of opinion I am having with JAS has nothing to do
with the above differentiation between 'inductive and hypothetic
explanations'. Instead, it's a difference of opinion about the
nature of 'that which is experienced'. I am saying that 'that which
is experienced' functions within a triadic interaction of
O-R-I...where O is that phaneron, and R is 'me' as
He-Who-Experiences-O....and I would be II. So, an example would be a
Qualisign, or any of the SinSigns. I consider that these experiences
- that pure feeling found within the Qualisign, that brute reaction
found within a Sinsign - are experiences within the phaneron. And
triadic.
JAS seems to be saying that any and all triadic interactions include
3ns..and I disagree.
That's where it's at. An, as usual, great difference between JAS and
myself -
Edwina
On Tue 24/08/21 2:17 PM , Gary Richmond gary.richm...@gmail.com
sent:
Edwina, Jon, List,
ET: If anything is present to the mind - then it is triadic, i.e.,
semiotic. As I've said, it could be a qualisign, an iconic sinsign, a
rhematic sinsign, a dicent sinsign [brute actuality]. If anything
functions as a stimulus - then it is triadic.
This is a clear example of what I've called the conflation and
attempted reduction of phenomenology to logic as semiotic. The
examples of signs which Edwina gives are found and developed in
semeiotic grammar (the first of the three branches of the
classificatory later science of logic as semeiotic) based on the
phaneroscopic findings of categoriality in phenomenology. This would
seem to put the cart before the horse.
But this has been argued to death; and it would appear that those
who would conflate phenomenology with mathematics and/or semeiotic
appear unable or unwilling to imagine a phaneroscopic science such as
that conceived of by Peirce. It appears that they would either reduce
phenomenology to a kind of mathematics or semeiotics or they would
attempt to eliminate it altogether.
Best,
Gary R
“LET EVERYTHING HAPPEN TO YOU
BEAUTY AND TERROR
JUST KEEP GOING
NO FEELING IS FINAL”
― RAINER MARIA RILKE
Gary Richmond
Philosophy and Critical ThinkingCommunication StudiesLaGuardia
College of the City University of New York
On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 1:08 PM Edwina Taborsky wrote:
JAS, list
If anything is present to the mind - then it is triadic, i.e.,
semiotic. As I've said, it could be a qualisign, an iconic sinsign, a
rhematic sinsign, a dicent sinsign [brute actuality]. If anything
functions as a stimulus - then it is triadic.
Edwina
On Tue 24/08/21 12:39 PM , Jon Alan Schmidt jonalanschm...@gmail.com
[2] sent:
Edwina, List:
ET: It seems to me that De Tienne is here referring to the
experience/consciousness that can be understood as a Qualisign, or
Iconic Sinsign or even a Rhematic Indexical Sinsign.
On the contrary, André is explicitly discussing phaneroscopy, not
semeiotic. The phaneron encompasses whatever is or could be present
to the mind in any way--not just Signs/mediation (3ns), but also
Ideas/quality (1ns) and Brute Actuality/reaction (2ns).
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USAStructural Engineer, Synechist
Philosopher, Lutheran Christianwww.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [3]
- twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt [4]
On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:59 AM Edwina Taborsky wrote:
List
It seems to me that De Tienne is here referring to the
experience/consciousness that can be understood as a Qualisign, or
Iconic Sinsign or even a Rhematic Indexical Sinsign. That is - since
all experience is triadic - and since the descriptions of 'experience'
provided by De Tienne seem to emphasize their being individual,
unique, non-analyzed...then, there is no Thirdness involved.
But, the Peircean notion of synechism/continuity suggests that
Thirdness/generality/Mind..is somehow, at some time in the
interaction, involved. "The synechist will not admit that physical
and psychical phenomena are entirely distinct" 1893 EP2.23
Bringing in Robert Marty's 'Five Paths'...one wonders: 'where do we
go from here'? After all, we are here involved purely in the semiosis
of Firstness and Secondness and yet, as Peirce argues within his
synechism, Mind or Thirdness has to be involved within not only what
WE experience but within that objective reality with which we
interact.
Edwina
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