BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }Gary R, list
I don't conflate phenomenology with mathematics or with semiotics! I gave a clear quotation about the difference between experience and analysis: -------------------------------------------------------------- Instead, my understanding is that, as Peirce writes, we must discriminate "between an inductive and a hypothetic explanation of the facts of human life. We have seen that every fact requires two kinds of explanation; the one proceeds by induction to replace its subject by a wider one, the other proceeds by hypothesis to replace its predicate by a deeper one. We have seen that these two explanations never coincide that both are indispensable….7.581 I interpret or misinterpret this to mean that Consciousness is the action within the phaneroscopy and operates within the three modes as outlined in 7.551 et al, which is that of primarily acknowledging the 'percepts', and associating or classifying them, and Mathematics provides the hypothetical explanations, which makes them 'teleological or purposive.7.570. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The difference of opinion I am having with JAS has nothing to do with the above differentiation between 'inductive and hypothetic explanations'. Instead, it's a difference of opinion about the nature of 'that which is experienced'. I am saying that 'that which is experienced' functions within a triadic interaction of O-R-I...where O is that phaneron, and R is 'me' as He-Who-Experiences-O....and I would be II. So, an example would be a Qualisign, or any of the SinSigns. I consider that these experiences - that pure feeling found within the Qualisign, that brute reaction found within a Sinsign - are experiences within the phaneron. And triadic. JAS seems to be saying that any and all triadic interactions include 3ns..and I disagree. That's where it's at. An, as usual, great difference between JAS and myself - Edwina On Tue 24/08/21 2:17 PM , Gary Richmond gary.richm...@gmail.com sent: Edwina, Jon, List, ET: If anything is present to the mind - then it is triadic, i.e., semiotic. As I've said, it could be a qualisign, an iconic sinsign, a rhematic sinsign, a dicent sinsign [brute actuality]. If anything functions as a stimulus - then it is triadic. This is a clear example of what I've called the conflation and attempted reduction of phenomenology to logic as semiotic. The examples of signs which Edwina gives are found and developed in semeiotic grammar (the first of the three branches of the classificatory later science of logic as semeiotic) based on the phaneroscopic findings of categoriality in phenomenology. This would seem to put the cart before the horse. But this has been argued to death; and it would appear that those who would conflate phenomenology with mathematics and/or semeiotic appear unable or unwilling to imagine a phaneroscopic science such as that conceived of by Peirce. It appears that they would either reduce phenomenology to a kind of mathematics or semeiotics or they would attempt to eliminate it altogether. Best, Gary R “LET EVERYTHING HAPPEN TO YOU BEAUTY AND TERROR JUST KEEP GOING NO FEELING IS FINAL” ― RAINER MARIA RILKE Gary Richmond Philosophy and Critical ThinkingCommunication StudiesLaGuardia College of the City University of New York On Tue, Aug 24, 2021 at 1:08 PM Edwina Taborsky wrote: JAS, list If anything is present to the mind - then it is triadic, i.e., semiotic. As I've said, it could be a qualisign, an iconic sinsign, a rhematic sinsign, a dicent sinsign [brute actuality]. If anything functions as a stimulus - then it is triadic. Edwina On Tue 24/08/21 12:39 PM , Jon Alan Schmidt jonalanschm...@gmail.com [2] sent: Edwina, List: ET: It seems to me that De Tienne is here referring to the experience/consciousness that can be understood as a Qualisign, or Iconic Sinsign or even a Rhematic Indexical Sinsign. On the contrary, André is explicitly discussing phaneroscopy, not semeiotic. The phaneron encompasses whatever is or could be present to the mind in any way--not just Signs/mediation (3ns), but also Ideas/quality (1ns) and Brute Actuality/reaction (2ns). Regards, Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USAStructural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christianwww.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt [3] - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt [4] On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 11:59 AM Edwina Taborsky wrote: List It seems to me that De Tienne is here referring to the experience/consciousness that can be understood as a Qualisign, or Iconic Sinsign or even a Rhematic Indexical Sinsign. That is - since all experience is triadic - and since the descriptions of 'experience' provided by De Tienne seem to emphasize their being individual, unique, non-analyzed...then, there is no Thirdness involved. But, the Peircean notion of synechism/continuity suggests that Thirdness/generality/Mind..is somehow, at some time in the interaction, involved. "The synechist will not admit that physical and psychical phenomena are entirely distinct" 1893 EP2.23 Bringing in Robert Marty's 'Five Paths'...one wonders: 'where do we go from here'? After all, we are here involved purely in the semiosis of Firstness and Secondness and yet, as Peirce argues within his synechism, Mind or Thirdness has to be involved within not only what WE experience but within that objective reality with which we interact. Edwina _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu [5] . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu [6] with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html [7] . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell. 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