Hans, do Hillier/Buttler have some secret parallel list where they hold the
*real* discussion, as opposed to the vacuous imbecilism of their
front-organisation, the marxist-leninist-take-me-for-an-idiot-list?
Mark Jones
http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans Ehrbar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 3:57 PM
Subject: [PEN-L:20939] On Mark to Rod, was Re: Re: re: energy
>
> >>>>> On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:10:45 -0500, Carrol Cox
> >>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > So unless you really do agree with Hans Ehrbar on the need
> > for an elitist putsch to stop global warming, you had
> > better give some thought to how that mass support can be
> > (beginning now) marshalled
>
>
> It is not my view that an elitist putsch can stop global
> warming. On the contrary, only those who experience the
> exploitation and oppression of capitalism by their own body
> and soul every day are able to put up the consistent fight
> against capitalism that is needed. An appeal to the
> intellect that the world is burning will not change the
> members of PEN-L or any other email list into the devoted,
> disciplined, selfless fighters which are able to overturn
> the system. Thinking that it can or that it ought to is
> idealism. Such fighters exist today, capitalism creates
> lots of them every day with its cruelty, but in the leading
> industrial countries they will always be in a minority. We
> intellectuals have to join the organizations of these
> committed workers and help them write a consistent programme
> how to avoid ecological catastrophe by a world wide
> proletarian revolution, and establish a minority
> dictatorship which will carry out this programme with
> Stalinist methods.
>
> You will be surprised how many liberals with support such a
> proletarian-based movement once it is big enough. Therefore
> my advice is: join any proletarian communist party, whether
> it be the Worker's World Party (my personal favorite at the
> moment), the CPUSA, the SWP, etc., whatever, and help them
> reach more workers or improve their theory. For those who
> cannot function in such an environment, an alternative might
> be to use your computer skills to build a new internet-based
> international which combines all these scattered proletarian
> organizations. Sven Buttler and Jim Hillier's
> marxist-leninist-list is working in this direction. Or use
> your computer skills to write the software for a
> computer-based planned economy, which could then perhaps be
> adopted by countries like Cuba, using Cockshott and Cottrell's
> "Towards a New Socialism" as the starting point. Whatever you
> do, think big. Stop diddling around.
>
>
>
> I am appending a message I sent to the bhaskar list on June 12
> which explains more of the theory behind this.
>
>
> Hans Ehrbar.
>
>
>
> > Sunday morning I sent the following message to Louis Proyect's
> > marxism list and to leninist-international. I think it might
> > also be of interest to the Bhaskar list, since it was
> > inspired by RB in at least two respects:
> >
> >
> > (1) Bhaskars criticism of Marx that he, following Hegel, put
> > too much emphasis on internal, at the expense of external
> > contradictions (the ecological limits of the earth are an
> > external contradiction of capitalism, and Marx's dictum in
> > the preface that "the problem itself arises only when the
> > material conditions for its solution are already present or
> > are at least in the course of formation" is only valid for
> > internal, not for external contradictions).
> >
> >
> > (2) Bhaskar's repudiation of the fact-value distinction
> > which encourages me to say here that only those who truly
> > hate the capitalist system have a correct grasp of its
> > reality.
> >
> >
> > I have not yet received any responses for this posting on
> > the other two lists. Something tells me that I might get a
> > response on this list here.
> >
> >
> > > Capitalism makes profits by the exploitation of labor.
> > > Those who create all the surplus value, on which capital
> > > depends in order to function, see their lives reduced to
> > > drudgery, without enough time or money to care for their
> > > children, without access to proper medical care, see their
> > > neighborhoods blighted, their youth terrorized by police,
> > > denied their life chances and a decent education, driven
> > > into drugs. Every day they are reminded of the contempt the
> > > system has for their lives and everything that is dear to
> > > them. These people get to the point where every molecule in
> > > their body hates the system. They are also the ones that
> > > can overturn the system, because capital needs them,
> > > organizes them, teaches them hard work and discipline, and
> > > at the same time makes implacable enemies out of them. They
> > > are willing to face bullets and torture and their own deaths
> > > and continue fighting after 1000 defeats. This is what it
> > > takes to overturn the system. This is the vanguard which
> > > needs to organize itself world wide, even if they are a
> > > minority in countries like the USA.
> > >
> > > Capitalism also silently destroys the ecosphere. This side
> > > effect is worse than the human suffering of the workers,
> > > because it threatens to end all human civilization. It
> > > alarms lots of people of all classes, their numbers will
> > > eventually be greater than the minority I just talked about,
> > > and it drives some of them to heroic deeds. But being an
> > > external contradiction, it is not experienced by millions on
> > > the same gut level as exploitation is. On the contrary,
> > > many environmental fighters live under a huge cognitive
> > > dissonance: their own lives are bearable or even comfortable
> > > but they know that the Titanic they are traveling on is
> > > about to sink. They see the destruction of the environment
> > > but they can never be sure whether it is really necessary to
> > > overturn capitalism, which has treated them tolerably, to
> > > save the planet. The capitalists will do everything to get
> > > them on their side with empty promises to clean up, and when
> > > it will be apparent that this is an illusion it will be too
> > > late. These people are the best humankind has to offer;
> > > they are valuable potential allies of the communists, and we
> > > should cherish their sensitivity and try to earn their
> > > respect, but we cannot expect them to doggedly and
> > > instinctively fight against the capitalist system against
> > > all apparent odds.
> > >
> > >
> > > This is why we have to prepare for a revolution led by a
> > > determined minority. The environmental beautiful souls will
> > > be our allies as soon as they see that we can be strong
> > > enough to make a difference. But in order to gain this
> > > strength we have to develop a core of dedicated and steeled
> > > working class fighters which has cleansed itself of all
> > > opportunists. Instead of contempt for the "sects" because
> > > of their small numbers we have to learn from their mistakes.
> > > How can you be a minority ready to fight in a sea of
> > > passivity and false hopes, and maybe wait for decades for a
> > > constellation where revolution is possible, without going
> > > insane? This is a problem which many organizations are
> > > faced with, and these are the issues which the concentrated
> > > brain power of a list like LP's marxism list or
> > > leninist-international should be addressing.
> >
> > Hans Ehrbar
> >
> >
> > --- from list [EMAIL PROTECTED] ---
>
>
