value vs. price by Ian Murray 07 February 2002 01:47 UTC
========================= You're right, there is no new thing under the Sun of Marx. ^^^^^^^^ CB: This recurrent theme that the ideas that Marx and Engels developed about 150 years ago MUST be obsolete or old and funky by now is oh so, tiresome. Have Newton's ideas lost all their force because they are so old ? Mere passage of time does not mean the validity of a theory automatically wears out. Anyway, you have heard of Lenin and other Marxists ,no doubt. There are new ideas under the Sun of Marx put forth by that worthy Son of Marx, don't you know. So, the sarcasm is not even based an accurate picture of what many Marxists claim. So, for many Marxists, there has been a development of Marx and Engels ^^^^^^^ It's just silly to say ST reduces to KM's stuff and vice versa. Not all non-Marxian social theory is ant-Marxian. Are you arguing for a Marxian monopoly? ^^^^^^^ CB: Silly ? How so ? I didn't say systems theory is inherently anti-Marxist, and I implied it might be pro-Marxist in that it seems to be an independent derivation of some aspects of Marx and perhaps Hegel's idea. What I objected to was the claim or use of system's theory to socalled render Marx's value theory superflous. I am arguing that the main social theory for changing the world in 2002 is that of dialectical and historical materialism, or the theory of Marx as developed by Lenin and others since. Social scientists who don't consider themselves Marxists discover empirical generalizations, but they do not develop underlying social theory qua non-Marxists. ( and as non-Marxists, they are most likely to move the underlying social theory backwards). The theory of Marxism will remain the best until capitalism is overthrown. That is not a dogmatic assertion , despite that anti-Marxist love to claim Marxism is dogmatically practiced. It is not dogmatic , but realistic. It is like there is no need for a new theory of the movement of the planets until the Solar system breaks down. That is not dogma, but realism.
