You say you do not agree which the proposition that “racism interferes with our social solidarity” is intrinsic as opposed to something changeable. Three questions. First, what is the basis for your assumption that ethnic/racial solidarity is practically changeable as opposed to intrinsic? Second, what is the falsification test and/or evidence that would convince you to change your mind? And third, how would your politics change if you changed your mind?
David Shemano From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robert Naiman Sent: Friday, October 23, 2015 12:00 PM To: Progressive Economics Subject: Re: [Pen-l] Excellent advice from Eric Foner to Bernie Sanders I wouldn't argue that diversity doesn't matter. On the contrary, I would freely concede that the mobilization of racism has been a key obstacle to anti-poverty efforts in the United States. But that doesn't mean that achieving greater social solidarity in the United States is impossible, it just means that the struggle against racism in the United States is part and parcel of the struggle to achieve greater social solidarity. But if you say we can't be like Denmark because we're too diverse, that's saying to me that the current degree to which racism interferes with our social solidarity is an intrinsic characteristic, rather than something that we can change. I think we can change it in two important ways: 1) by being less racist 2) by doing a better job of winning framing fights so that the current level of racism isn't ruling the discussion. Social Security is a great example of an anti-poverty program that seems to be able to co-exist with the current level of racism. AFDC was not. So, that suggests to me that we should try to do more things that are like Social Security (like, expand Social Security, as Sanders and many Democratic constituency groups have argued for) - things that are "universal" on their face, while doing much more to help people on the bottom. As for scale, if something like Social Security works, it's not obvious why it shouldn't work with twice as many people. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (202) 448-2898 x1 On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Anthony D'Costa <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I would like to hear an argument where scale is unimportant and also an argument where lack of diversity doesn't help in a more unified perhaps focused decision making. Having lived in Copenhagen for over five years has given me insights that I did not have in my uncritical view of Scandinavia before getting there. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Anthony P. D'Costa, Chair & Professor of Contemporary Indian Studies Australia India Institute and School of Social & Political Sciences University of Melbourne, 147-149 Barry Street, Carlton VIC 3053, AUSTRALIA Ph: +61 3 9035 6161<tel:+61%203%209035%206161> Visit the Australia India Institute Website http://www.aii.unimelb.edu.au/<https://owa.unimelb.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=KGdpeyp6YEyjUaiENKoAtx8nOn9uStAIlCVtCNE3uLxqkGIwkWdEYjJXILfPlddrM0Q1713syQQ.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.aii.unimelb.edu.au%2f> New: After-Development Dynamics (on South Korea) http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780198729433.do Forthcoming Book: http://www.tandf.net/books/details/9780415564953/ New Book Series (Dynamics of Asian Development) http://www.springer.com/series/13342 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent from my iPad On Oct 23, 2015, at 11:55, Robert Naiman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: First: I don't think the question should be, "can we be exactly like Denmark." Obviously, the answer to that is no. And it should be no. Nobody should try to be exactly like anybody else, whether persons or countries. I think the question is: can we be more like Denmark, in ways that we'd like? And there I'm sure the answer is yes. I think more free basic health care in schools is a great example of something wonderful that we can do, that fits well with Bernie's demand of expanding "Medicare for all." Second, it's far from obvious why the size of Denmark's population is particularly relevant. Third, I think the "homogeneous" thing should be interrogated. When people say we can't be like northern Europe because they're more homogeneous, aren't they saying that we have black people and we're racist so we can't have as much social solidarity as they have? Isn't that just the sort of thing that we want to explode? Fourth: if we're not trying to be exactly like Denmark, at least as a "transitional program," if you will, then we don't have to have their steeply progressive taxation. Not that I'm against it, but we don't have to get to Paradise in one jump. We could start by increasing taxes on the top 1% and top 0.1% of the income distribution. As the New York Times pointed out, that would raise a lot of money with which we could do a lot of things to get rid of poverty and make the people on the bottom 60% of the income distribution a lot better off. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (202) 448-2898 x1<tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1> On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 11:39 AM, Anthony D'Costa <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Denmark is certainly an interesting case. Two things we liked were public transportation and dental care for kids. All schools in the basement or somewhere next to the school had dental facilities for all kids in the school based on your yearly appointments. It was mass service like a conveyor belt but efficient and effective. Healthcare was universal a real plus but never tested the system for serious stuff. That said will Americans be willing to pay 40 plus % average taxes with marginal rates 70%? And 5 million very homogeneous population may have some bearing on policy agenda. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Anthony P. D'Costa, Chair & Professor of Contemporary Indian Studies Australia India Institute and School of Social & Political Sciences University of Melbourne, 147-149 Barry Street, Carlton VIC 3053, AUSTRALIA Ph: +61 3 9035 6161<tel:+61%203%209035%206161> Visit the Australia India Institute Website http://www.aii.unimelb.edu.au/<https://owa.unimelb.edu.au/owa/redir.aspx?C=KGdpeyp6YEyjUaiENKoAtx8nOn9uStAIlCVtCNE3uLxqkGIwkWdEYjJXILfPlddrM0Q1713syQQ.&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.aii.unimelb.edu.au%2f> New: After-Development Dynamics (on South Korea) http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780198729433.do Forthcoming Book: http://www.tandf.net/books/details/9780415564953/ New Book Series (Dynamics of Asian Development) http://www.springer.com/series/13342 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent from my iPad On Oct 23, 2015, at 10:06, Robert Naiman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I'm not sure that I agree with the critique though, as a practical matter, even though I think the dialogue is intrinsically very positive, and it's a wonderful thing for people like Foner to take advantage of any opportunity to talk about US radical history and insist that others do so. I think talking about Denmark might actually be more relevant to the matter at hand than what happened in the US in the 1890s. It's more relevant, arguably, to talking about health care for all. It's more relevant, arguably, to talking about family and medical leave. Western Europe made a choice after World War II to have capitalism without having poverty. The United States made a different choice. We can revisit that choice. The fact that Western Europe made that choice and lived to tell the tale is a key fact that we should compel people in the US to grapple with. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (202) 448-2898 x1<tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 4:26 PM, Robert Naiman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I love this. I hope it inspires a thousand more pieces like it. Robert Naiman Policy Director Just Foreign Policy www.justforeignpolicy.org<http://www.justforeignpolicy.org> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> (202) 448-2898 x1<tel:%28202%29%20448-2898%20x1> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Marv Gandall <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: http://www.thenation.com/article/how-bernie-sanders-should-talk-about-democratic-socialism/ _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l ____________________________________________________ Information contained in this e-mail transmission may be privileged, confidential and covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 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