On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:57 AM, raghu <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:13 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: > >> 1. That's not what I mean by saying that it's not the whole story. I mean >> that the students might be raising and giving life to legitimate issues, >> even if their demand that the instructor be fired is unjust. >> > > > Maybe, but the way they are going about it is very problematic. > > > > > >> 2. How can you say that it's a free speech issue, and yet say that it >> wouldn't be a free speech issue if the person were a Nazi or a white >> supremacist? Either it's a First Amendment issue or it isn't, either it's a >> free speech issue or it isn't, either it's an issue of academic freedom or >> it isn't. If it is, then it doesn't matter what the political content is, >> right? If you wouldn't defend her if she were a Nazi or an open KKK >> admirer, then it's a slam dunk that what the students are doing is fair >> game. >> > > > It all comes back to drawing lines, doesn't it? You don't shout "Fire!" in > a crowded concert hall, and you don't spout racist propaganda in a > classroom without consequences. And yes, you do have to make intelligent, > subjective, case-by-case judgments about what constitutes "racist > propaganda". So what? >
So, the students are making a different subjective, case-by-case judgment than you are. If you're not standing on principle, but only on your individual subjective judgment, why should anyone be overly concerned about your individual outrage? > I thought it was only intellectually lazy libertarians who resort to > simplistic and absolute rules without making allowance for specifics of a > situation and historical context.. > > -raghu. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 11:04 AM, raghu <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 9:45 AM, Robert Naiman wrote: >> >>> I agree 100% that teachers shouldn't be fired for expressing their views >>> in class, even if they're racists, even if they're KKK, even if they're >>> Nazis. First Amendment, academic freedom, until death. >>> >> >> Actually, I wouldn't go that far at all. If this instructor at Kansas was >> out there spouting white-supremacist theories or something like that, I'd >> totally understand students demanding that she be disciplined or terminated. >> >> This is not about some abstract "free speech" principle; rather the >> merits of the case simply don't support calls for this instructor's >> termination. >> >> >> >> But: I think it's important to recognize that that might not be the >>> entire story. >>> >> >> That's completely irrelevant. This instructor may very well be an awful >> person, guilty of all kinds of misconduct and may very well deserve to be >> fired. If so, let's see that case being made and we can have that >> discussion. >> >> Right now the issue is a different one: should this instructor be fired >> for the reasons these students want her to be fired? I think the answer to >> that is clearly no. And the students behavior in this case is extremely >> problematic. >> -raghu. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pen-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> pen-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > pen-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l > >
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