On Jan 11, 2008 4:24 PM, Doyle Saylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings Economists,
> On Jan 11, 2008, at 3:48 PM, Gar Lipow wrote:
>
> > It is a very hopeful thing, but not
> > something you can put an ETA on.
>
> Doyle;
> They demonstrated it could be fabricated using chip techniques.


Yeah, but what they demonstrated is something that can't produce
easily usable electricity - not even easily converted electricity. So
they what they can fabricate using chip techniques is not a useful
product. But it is still very hopeful. The problem does not seem
difficult to overcome. From what they said, all they will need to do
is build a capacitor into each chip. It just that this is the sort of
thing whose outcome is hard to anticipate. Maybe they will solve with
no problem; maybe it will be harder than they think and take a decade.
Hope, but don't  expect too much.

That said you are right that a renewalbe grid is possible with todays
technology; a combination of wind electricity, solar thermal, and a
HVDC lines could provide reliable electricty at a price comparable to
that of new nuclear power plants.  Solar PV would currently be a bit
more expensive -- though some of the stuff in the pipeline makes it
look as though the cheap PV that is just around the corner may
actually be around the corner. We've heard that song before though.

The immediate thing would to put money, and regulation into increasing
efficiency massively and quickly. Put in place the long distance DC
lines we will need regardless of solution adapted. Put up massive
amounts of wind, because that is now a mature technology. Encourage
more solar thermal. Start building mass transit; start restoring our
freight rail system. Put in place requirements for all new automobiles
and light trucks to be able to travel at least the first 50 miles on
electricity; require that they use that electricity efficiently. If
they are plug hybrids rather than pure electric vehicles require that
they meet strong efficiency standards for both the electric and fuel
portions. Put money into getting solar PV over the hump. Offer a
billion dollar a year purchase for any solar panels (not cells/panels)
offered at $1 per watt with a 20 year performance guarantee. Pour
money into improving batteries. In the meantime deploy some of the
strorage techniques we already know how to do.

Yes continue to try and develop hydrogen. But hydrogen (in my opinion)
will take a long long time before it makes sense for automobiles - if
ever. But it may make sense as a general electricity storage if we
develop variable renewable sources that are 2 cents per kWh or lower.
 If that 80% efficent solar panel proves viable, or if  those  Flying
Electric Generators that are supposed to produce wind electricity for
2 cents per kWh ever prove more than a pipe dream, then hydrogen might
make sense just as a way to change cheap variable electricity into
moderately priced electricity available when you want it. (With 2
cents per kWh electricity, and some breakthroughs in electrolyzers
that seem pretty near term, we could produce hydrogen competitive with
natural gas. If we could not produce cheap fuel cells to use that
hydrogen we could produce combined cycle turbines similar to those
used to burn natural gas. Burning hydrogen in turbines designed to run
on natural gas is problematic - but the changes in design are not
major ones, mainly a matter of adjusting to the fact that hydrogen
contains fewer BTUs per cubic feet than natural gas but more BTUs per
pound, and that hydrogen is more corrosive than natural gas -- in
other words making certain parts out of other materials, and adapting
to the need for a higher volume of gas per unit of output. If you
placed those combined cycle turbines in large buildings, dense
neighborhoods, or factories where you could put the waste heat to use
you could end up with end-use efficiency as great as fuel cells
achieve in actual practice. And it makes a lot more sense to transport
electricity, and produce hydrogen where it would be used than to put
in place a whole new infrastructure of hydrogen pipelines. )

Reply via email to