I understand. I was once a beginner to PDL, and Prima, and there is a lot I could only have learned by studying the code directly from the two distributions. I have also written multiple documents for beginning PDL users, though I have not done so for Prima. I hope soon to write a semi-advanced tutorial on dynamic plotting for PDL::Graphics::Prima, which I hope serves as a stepping stone for those coming to Prima by way of the plotting library.
Speaking for myself, the problem is that I easily lose steam when writing beginner docs. It's easy to focus on awesome advanced features that will keep users who switch and leave the intro docs less developed. It sometimes takes a vocal beginner, such as yourself, to light enough of a fire under the developers to bring them to work on their intro docs. So, keep up the heat! Thanks so much for taking the time to publicly write about your experiences. And if you want yet another way to give feedback, check out annocpan.org. :) David On Jul 8, 2012 3:28 AM, "Fabio D'Alfonso" <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi, > I know it would be a great effort. The point I was trying to show is that > this makes the difference. I am playing with Prima, and as you saw in my > posts on the in => and the other on pack, there are both strange behaviors > and lack of understanding. But the second could actually be a lack of > explaining. What is obvious to the developer is not obvious to the user. I > can insert a button, at at some time becomes mandatory to set the pack, an > its parameters? > And if there is problem with some function, that way would not be the > first line the section, as the examples are always tested. > > I am pointing to the need for a change in perspective. Apart of the effort > required to make something in this different direction, the stress on > reference material is wrong. It helps who already knows, but it is a > malediction for any other, as it gives the illusion to support the adoption > of the toolkit, and it is not the case. > People able to use reference material probably wrote it, or could have > written. > > My cat wakes up in the morning and, at first, looks for something to eat. > In the same way, we should wake up in the morning, and, at first, looking > for a publisher, or at least not trying to look for some reason the > reference material suffices. > It is at least deprecated to make a module without a test suite, > independently of the effort it requires. It is a wind-up, but it should > become deprecated also to build a toolkit and leave behind a good adoption > strategy, both by hand and by looking for a publisher. > > Good module, but where are the tests? > Good toolkit, but... is there a book? > > I am directly facing the problem, trying to write something about Prima to > make it more simple to adopt, so it is not a talk to talk. > > > Fabio D'Alfonso > 'Enabling Business Through IT' > cell. +39.348.059.40.22 *** > web: www.fabiodalfonso.com > email: [email protected] > linkedin: > www.linkedin.com/in/fabiodalfonso<http://it.linkedin.com/in/fabiodalfonso> > twitter: > www.twitter.com/#!/fabio_dalfonso<http://www.twitter.com/#%21/fabio_dalfonso> > > fax: +39.06.874.599.581 > BlackBerry® Wireless Enabled Address. > ** Hidden numbers are automatically rejected by the phone* > On 7/8/2012 5:12 AM, David Mertens wrote: > > Fabio - > > Writing real books, both for PDL and for Prima, would be a monumental > effort. I think they would be well worth the effort, but just getting what > we have in PDL::Book was hard enough. The Prima community seems to be less > active than the PDL community, so I'm not sure if they have the tuits to > assemble a similar document. That is, their efforts are probably better > spent elsewhere. > > Ultimately, getting an edited book needs to be part of a larger marketing > strategy for PDL. As it is, I am very happy that we have the PDF book that > we have, and I am turning my attention to getting App::Prima::REPL > user-ready. Once I feel that this interface has stabilized, then I might > turn my attention towards actual conversation with chromatic (at Onyx Neon) > to see what we would have to do just to get our book "in the door," so to > speak. However, this is far into the future, and I have many other things > keeping me busy before I ever get to that. If somebody else beats me to it, > that'd be great. > > I expect that PDL::Graphics::Prima will draw these two communities closer > together and I hope that it, along with App::Prima::REPL, manages to grow > both communities. At this point, I think that your efforts to write a > series of blog entries targeted at users new to Prima is absolutely > perfect. We don't have the manpower to write a full-blown Prima::Book, but > your blog writing will give newcomers a gentle enough on-ramp that they > will be able to get started. > > David > > On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Fabio D'Alfonso < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi, >> I have the PDL Book. It is a great effort, but with some oddities that >> are not simple to solve. >> It is a step forward, compared to Prima itself, where there is not >> something similar (ignoring the cited book about Tk). >> >> The point is not having the stuff printed, and having a cover. A book is >> something quite different to its content. Going to O'Reilly would mean a >> process of reading, proof reading, validating, rewiriting what is not >> consistent, reordering subjects in better ways, changing examples, adding >> images as needed, formatting the material to have in one page if the need >> to turn the page would be a problem for reading. >> Draft are read by people that validate that content in the perspective of >> the reader, and check the validity of the content. >> At least, this makes a book. >> >> A book is a job of authors and at least other 10 people. >> Yes it could be a great idea to contact O'Reilly, and the PDL Book could >> help very much. But Mastering PDL would be another thing. >> >> >> Fabio D'Alfonso >> 'Enabling Business Through IT' >> cell. +39.348.059.40.22 *** >> web: www.fabiodalfonso.com >> email: [email protected] >> linkedin: >> www.linkedin.com/in/fabiodalfonso<http://it.linkedin.com/in/fabiodalfonso> >> twitter: >> www.twitter.com/#!/fabio_dalfonso<http://www.twitter.com/#%21/fabio_dalfonso> >> >> fax: +39.06.874.599.581 >> BlackBerry® Wireless Enabled Address. >> ** Hidden numbers are automatically rejected by the phone* >> On 7/7/2012 3:27 PM, Joel Berger wrote: >> >> What can save, in this sense, Prima is the avaialabilty of the "Mastering >> Perl/Tk", that shows many features in common with Prima (ot that Prima >> ported) as the geometry manager. For PDL there is nothing out there that can >> act in this way. >> >> So if one is looking for a marketing tool, that means creating the >> conditions to have a book on the bookshelf. >> >> >> I know that the PDLporters just finished at least a working copy of >> the PDL::Book; is you concern that it be "dead-tree available"? If so >> I'm sure they could shop it around, Oriellly or Onyx Neon come to >> mind. >> >> Joel >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Perldl mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mailman.jach.hawaii.edu/mailman/listinfo/perldl >> >> > > > -- > "Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. > Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, > by definition, not smart enough to debug it." -- Brian Kernighan > > > >
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