On 7/13/2012 5:32 PM, Fabio D'Alfonso wrote:
Hi,
I already started to do something, with some post on Prima, that are now waiting
for some
_The point is that I do not consider code mining the way to do this, and would
need the help of developers to understand amd clarify many points. Told in
another way, if there are people that would put on writing, there should be some
kind of help to expose knowledge, from developers_. As I already wrote,
restarting everyone from 0, as the code mining, is a malediction. It creates the
conditions to have back little or nothing, as one gets the grip is exhausted.
Please include the original texts in your replies within
threads of posts. E.g, I don't recall a post to which
this could be referring.
Also, your emails lately have not been in text mode,
which means they are not readable in the list archives
which reduces the utility and sharing these discussions
to a more general audience.
Are you advertising yourself for the publication director?
I would be happy, both for PDL and Prima. The point is that this could work only
with the contribution of developers, in answering questions, and clarifying
points.
Again, I'm missing the previous reference to "The point"
that would put this comment in context.
--Chris
Fabio D'Alfonso
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On 7/13/2012 10:59 PM, Clifford Sobchuk wrote:
Fabio, I think that the last two lines are your in.... maybe PDL and Prima
will evolve to where you might be interested in contributing.
Is it there yet for you? If so, I think that your contributions would be
welcome. This is how we ended up with our spanky new web site. It had a lot to
do with Daniel Carrera's drive to clean it up and make it more accessible to
casual Perl users.
It seems to me that you have some positive thoughts on how to bring about more
accessibility to Perl users for the same reasons. Speaking for my self, I
would welcome an on ramp for general users to Perl for scientific computing.
The presentations that Maggie and David did at YAPC:NA 2012 I thought were a
great direction.
Can you explain a little more as to what you would be willing to do? I don't
think that its that we don't want to improve things - just that the core
developers can't. So that leaves us users that might have spare time but no
direction as to how to help. But this, as you correctly state, needs a plan.
Are you advertising yourself for the publication director?
*CLIFF SOBCHUK*
Core RF Engineering
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*From:* Fabio D'Alfonso [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2012 2:06 PM
*To:* chm
*Cc:* Dmitry Karasik; [email protected]; [email protected]
*Subject:* Re: [Perldl] common denominator graphics for PDL
Hi,
I do not follow, this.
Everyone contributes to the extent that they can.
If you don't like what you see, wait a bit, maybe
PDL and Prima will evolve to where you might be
interested in contributing.
On one side this is obvious, on the other it is a way to say that in no way a
concept be brought to a community. Only spontaneous evolution is allowed.
It also seems to mean, that my help is not of interest, as it generates some
work also for developers, of a kind the is considered boring.
Ok, let's wait if something happen...
Fabio D'Alfonso
'Enabling Business Through IT'
cell. +39.348.059.40.22 ***
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On 7/13/2012 9:29 PM, chm wrote:
On 7/13/2012 2:19 PM, Fabio D'Alfonso wrote:
Hi,
it seems a very good idea.
But about
* The use of Prima will provide an easy
to use, default GUI environment for more
sophisticated and user friendly PDL
applications.
there are some things to consider.
Both PDL and Prima have issues with documentation.
I started to post something on perl.org about Prima, as is known to
followers of
the Prima list and also with some kind help, found many issues with
undocumented
behaviors.
I think both PDL and Prima would benefit from
motivated users who would be willing to contribute
improved documentation to the projects.
I would worry about the issues that the lack of documentation could bring to
the
PDL/Prima Joint Venture. At the same time this could be a great opportunity to
bring together efforts to produce an adoptable resource.
PDL /Prima are the only resources a available that have no specific effort to
produce an high quality "seems a book" document.
The PDL Book is a community effort in this direction.
It is a very rough draft but a big step in the right
direction from where we were before. I'm hoping that
PDL+Prima will generate some synergy and a larger
Prima user base which could lead to contributions of
quality intro documentation and tutorials there
as well.
GTK2 has one (http://gtk2-perl.sourceforge.net/doc/gtk2-perl-study-guide/)
Tk has one (Mastering/Tk, O'Reilly)
From my point of view, we have a bit of a chicken
and the egg problem with PDL+Prima. We need to
improve the market- and mind-share for both. More
users and general interest could lead to official
publications. In fact, I would be happy if the
PDL Book could serve as a starting point.
I would be happy to help in this project for the docs, but only if a highy
revised documentation (as for example that of GTK2, to consider something
possible) in favor of users, and not a "pod 2 something", is intended as a CORE
part of the initiative.
Everyone contributes to the extent that they can.
If you don't like what you see, wait a bit, maybe
PDL and Prima will evolve to where you might be
interested in contributing.
I would propose to consider the ratio Number of Users / Number of Developers as
a success index for both PDL and Prima.
My goal is to increase the number of PDL users
so that the larger community might support/entice
a larger number of contributors to software and
documentation/tutorials for the project.
Happy PDL-ing!
Chris
Fabio D'Alfonso
'Enabling Business Through IT'
cell. +39.348.059.40.22 ***
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On 7/13/2012 5:37 PM, chm wrote:
David and all-
I think it is time to resolve the PDL graphics
problem, "this missing link" by getting a basic,
standard capability for PDL.
I propose the standard display graphics for
PDL be based on the Prima graphics toolkit
by Karasik et. al. and the current code for
PDL::Graphics::Prima by David Mertens.
A start would be to review the common usage
of PGPLOT, PLplot, and Gnuplot to come up with
a Top 10 of use cases to implement. They
should be *very* simple to use and have smart
defaults so the common case versions of the
Top 10 can be done in 1-line or less. :-)
Motivation/justification:
* More beginning PDL users thanks to the
PDL Book and the increasing buildability
and usability of PDL on all platforms.
It makes it more glaring that we don't
have a good, common, default graphics.
* Alien::XXX development has not matured
enough to allow easy use of PLplot and
PGPLOT and it is arguable that we want
the base display graphics to be readily
available from perl/CPAN which Prima
is.
* The use of Prima will provide an easy
to use, default GUI environment for more
sophisticated and user friendly PDL
applications.
* If we could get that base graphics up
and running for the next point release
(which will include the new NiceSlice
filter engine and 64bit indexing) we
would have a compelling platform for
future growth.
One downside, I am not prepared to push
this effort through as I'm pretty busy
working to make time for the final 64bit
index development and the new NiceSlice
engine support (the missing piece is the
ability to use NiceSlice in an eval such
as the pdl2 or perldl shells.
I'm hoping that David might be willing
to spearhead this development and maybe
hold off on the Core diving for a bit.
At any rate, I think the time is right
for this to happen and the sooner the
better.
Thoughts, comments, "volunteers"?
--Chris
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