On 25 juin 2013, at 13:22, Igor Stasenko wrote: > On 25 June 2013 12:59, Camille Teruel <camille.ter...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 25 juin 2013, at 11:45, Igor Stasenko wrote: >> >> On 25 June 2013 11:09, Camille Teruel <camille.ter...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On 25 juin 2013, at 10:28, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> >> >> On Jun 24, 2013, at 6:59 PM, Camillo Bruni <camillobr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 2013-06-24, at 18:55, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.duca...@inria.fr> wrote: >> >> >> >> the isBlah is not optimal now it is just there and we cannot rewrite >> >> everything. >> >> >> I still think that is: is a nice way to kill some of the isPlague in Object. >> >> >> >> I still don't see what you solve, and the idea to use symbols for #is: is >> >> also >> >> >> wrong, for me that's going back to string-based programming. >> >> >> >> well, that's basically my argument agains #is: >> >> IMO is also an important performance issue in many cases, because is >> >> replacing a simple send with a string comparison and that can provoke >> >> slowdowns in some places (no idea where, this is just theoretical :)... >> >> Of course, as "pharo designers" we should be careful on not overpopulate >> >> Object with isBlah methods... but sometimes they are needed :) >> >> >> >> +1. >> >> Indeed, sometimes they are needed. You can't replace every isXXX send with a >> >> new visitor or dispatching by adding more and more extension methods all >> >> over the place (including Object BTW). >> >> Yet a fair amount of these methods can be removed. >> >> I think that a lot of these methods exist only because people think that >> >> isKindOf:/isMemberOf: are always evil, and its not true. >> >> There is at least three cases were I don't feel guilty using >> >> isKindOf:/isMemberOf: : >> >> - In unit tests >> >> - In #= methods >> >> - When I really want to ensure that an object is an instance of a specific >> >> class (see MethodContext>>#privRefreshWith: for example). This poor's man >> >> type checking can be replace with typed slots (that end up using >> >> isKindOf/isMemberOf: anyway). >> >> If we agree on that we can remove many #isXXX methods. >> >> Then there is some #isXXX methods that do not belong to Object (ex: >> >> #isTransferable belongs to Morph) and others that can be removed just by >> >> refactoring senders. >> >> We can also move some of them to extension methods, that doesn't solve the >> >> problem but it's a better packaging. >> >> Anyway I don't want to rely on #is: method because it conflates a lot of >> >> selectors into one. >> >> >> yes. it is. so what is the problem? >> >> >> The problem is that this #is: method is like aspirin: it makes the symptom >> disappear but it doesn't cure the disease (if there is one). >> > > Why? It was proposed how to deal with too many isXXXX methods in Object class. > It is orthogonal to whether you should use isXXX pattern or not. > Because each case should be dealt separately (and that's where you > free to override #is: method > to serve your special purpose). > >> Are you sure you understand the purpose of #is: method? >> >> >> No I didn't, but now that you revealed me the true purpose of #is:, I >> finally reached enlightenment. >> But apparently it's not the case of its own comment. >> > Despite the method's comment contains my name, it is not under my authorship.
I never said it was. > Look for mailing list archives to see what i proposed then, and if it > different to what i saying now. I believe you. The link to the archive is dead BTW. > >> "A means for cleanly replacing all isXXX like methods. >> Please use judiciously! >> Suggested by Igor Stasenko at >> >> all isXXX should be converted following the pattern >> ColorForm>>isColorForm >> ^ true >> Object>>isColorForm >> ^ false >> is: aSymbol >> ^ aSymbol = #ColorForm or: [ super is: aSymbol ]" >> >> its purpose is for cases when you realy realy very very badly want to >> add own isPlague to >> Object protocol. In that case, you should use 'is: #plague' >> because no new isXXXX methods should be added anymore. >> The feast is over, and you should use #is: method. (or think how to >> not use isXXX pattern at all). >> >> >> TL;DR: I agree with Camillo :) >> >> >> >> anyway, this topic has been discussed with enough hot air so far and no >> >> progress, >> >> >> which means it is absolutely not important. there are more urgent things to >> >> done... >> > > i could not care less.. Back in 2009 i just proposed this. > Pharo people seems liked the idea and added this method into the image. > That's how my name appeared there. > And what i trying to (again as in 2009) articulate here, is how i see > to use this method. > But NOT whether it should stay in image or to be gone. > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >
