+100
On 06.03.2016 09:48, stepharo wrote:
Why Pharo is not smalltalk and will not be Smalltalk
- First because we make it to free us from the past.
- In the future we want that people that learned smalltalk in the
90 do not discard Pharo because
- "what killed smalltalk was that we could not work
well in team"
- "smalltalk oh it does not scale"
- "I cannot edit my code with emacs"
- "oh back in 1993 I got lecture and the system took
10 min to boot on our sparc (I got this story yesterday)"
- I did not get how you work in team
- "with Smalltalk you cannot save your code in svn"
- "Smalltalk is monolithic"
- "you are in a cage you cannot interact with the
outside world" a guy organising OOPSLA
- "Smalltalk what a dated name! bavardage: tu
programmes en bavardage, donc les resultats ne doivent pas
etre si super que cela...."
I do not care that these statements are right or wrong.
I do not care that people are ignorant. And yes with some education we
can show that they are wrong.
There are in the mind of people that got in touch with Smalltalk.
No more no less.
So may be Smalltalkers should read book about marketing in general.
So you are stuck in your history and I'm dreaming about the future:
and the future is Pharo not Smalltalk. Face it.
There will be no renewal of Smalltalk. Pharo is the chance for
Smalltalk to exist in 2050.
The future is much more important that the history.
You do not make people dreaming telling them that back in the 1940 you
add to cross the street to fetch water.
left blank on purpose
Le 5/3/16 18:22, Eliot Miranda a écrit :
Stef,
On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote:
You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in
the same.
Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum?
Do you think that people do not know how to count?
In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than
python, java, c#, lua, ...
Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving
our language and do node.js.
Seriously.
Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave.
I can tell you.
I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would
be a good opportunity.
Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and
visibility of our system
I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do
something.
Afterall I may be wrong.
Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want
to stay with old friends
just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an
asshole that does not want to
promote smalltalk.
I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk
name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I
want to refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as
the equating it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why
don't you address my points about older programming languages whose
names (AFAICT) are not perceived negatively?
I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I
admire and respect your efforts, Stéphane, in developing, organizing
and supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep
quiet about something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong.
And that thing is to deny Pharo is Smalltalk.
And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning
are important, because to understand each other we should call a
spade a spade, and because I am grateful for and delighted by this
thing called Smalltalk, and I will not support taking credit away
from it. Ruby is inspired by Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing.
Stef
Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a écrit :
On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote:
SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV.
What is so much pharo specific in this library?
Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet
another split?
Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in
peace. Yes this looks like a
smart move.
There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking
about ruby and swift)
so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of
object-oriented programming!!
When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the
community. I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses
Smalltalk but wants to distance itself. It feels like theft or
massive disrespect for the inventors of the language, or a
complete lack of gratitude.
C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of
low-level imperative languages". List is much older than C but no
one wants to rename Lisp because it is perceived as old.
Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate
and identify the system as different, not arrogant, not
hieroglyphic. Further, Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive
materially. Why anyone would be ashamed of that incredible
heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me.
Offended,
Eliot
