2016-07-22 16:42 GMT+02:00 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianop...@gmail.com>:
> > > On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 11:38 AM, Pavel Krivanek <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com > > wrote: > >> >> >> 2016-07-22 16:24 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopol...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 4:12 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < >>> marianop...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Pavel, >>>> >>>> Congrats for your hard work! You know me well, so don't take my next >>>> question as negative. >>>> You have been working in minimal images since years. Guille has also >>>> done quite some work, and many other people as well. >>>> My question is.... have we decreased the effort to keep it working as >>>> Pharo evolves? Previously, there were always problems with the >>>> dependencies: a single commit to Pharo would add or break a dependency and >>>> so we cannot bootstrap anymore. In other words...there was still a lot of >>>> human action needed to check and fix dependencies. Is this still the case? >>>> >>> >>> Complex questions requires complex answers :). It's not a yes, neither a >>> no. >>> >>> - We have automatized the dependency analyses >>> - We added Lint rules that ensure that no new dependencies are added to >>> the kernel because of an integration >>> - We will be adding soon enough more tools to automatically validate and >>> ensure the health of the bootstrap, and to detect possible problems. >>> >>> Buuut, >>> >>> - Lint rules can (and sometimes are) ignored >>> - Not everybody is aware of how to maintain dependencies or even they do >>> not know they should care about it >>> >>> So the human factor is still of big importance (and risk), and educating >>> people is harder than machines ^^ >>> >> >> I must say that current need of human work required for proper reloading >> of all Pharo packages is too high. It can be better only as soon as the >> bootstrapping will be part of our development/release process. >> > > Exactly!!! Totally agree. And..what are the plans of getting the > bootstrapping as part of the development and release process? I am sure it > is on the roadmap. > Simply as soon as possible :-) I will work on preparation of it in the next weeks. -- Pavel > > >> >> On the other hand, dependency problems are now quite rare and are very >> rare in the kernel packages. >> >> > That's very good to hear! > > >> -- Pavel >> >> >>> >>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 10:37 AM, Pavel Krivanek < >>>> pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2016-07-22 15:22 GMT+02:00 Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com>: >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 9:12 PM, Pavel Krivanek >>>>>> <pavel.kriva...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> > Hi, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > as you maybe know, we are working on Pharo image bootstrap - the >>>>>> process >>>>>> > that can generate an image from source codes and initialize it >>>>>> correctly. >>>>>> > Because of practical reasons we do not bootstrap the standard image >>>>>> at once >>>>>> > but we are trying to bootstrap a small headless kernel image and >>>>>> then load >>>>>> > the rest of the system into it. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The good news is that we are successful in our effor. We are >>>>>> already able to >>>>>> > produce well usable images as you can test here: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great to hear of your continuing progress. >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > https://goo.gl/fn1VbP >>>>>> > >>>>>> > From the Pharo/Squeak point of view this image is very special >>>>>> because it >>>>>> > doesn't contain any object inherited from 70's. Pharo lost its >>>>>> umbilical >>>>>> > cord. >>>>>> >>>>>> Does this mean you are starting with a zero byte file and adding nil, >>>>>> true, false, etc...? >>>>>> Or what is the size of the image you start with? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No, we are not generating image file directly. We use special VM >>>>> simulator and then save its object memory. >>>>> Our bootstrapped image has about 5MB now (in Spur format). >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers -ben >>>>>> >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Notice that the initial display width is too narrow and and we >>>>>> still need a >>>>>> > lot of work on the building process, but In the next weeks and >>>>>> months it >>>>>> > will change a lot the Pharo development - especially as soon as it >>>>>> will be >>>>>> > combined with Git support. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Cheers, >>>>>> > -- Pavel >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mariano >>>> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >>>> >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >
