About the "How to learn Morphic ?" point, there is a cool PharoCast that shows 
basis http://www.pharocasts.com/2011/02/pharo-gui-with-polymorph.html.

About my own experience, I have learnt a bit by myself (RecentMessageList, 
Finder) and then I have pair programmed with Alain during last ESUG and learnt 
a lot :)
There is some stuff you can't guess because they are strange and a bit 
disturbing (who said "layout" ? ^^), but then you can put some halt almost 
everywhere (let me give you an advice, first create a subclass, then put a halt 
^^).

But as said there is a lack of documentation, and I think than more pharocast 
could be a good way to change this. And since we are cleaning the system, I 
guess Morphic will come more and more understandable (I hope) ;)


I wish you good luck and I you have question do no hesitate :)



Ben



On Mar 25, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote:

> Hi Daniel             
> 
>> I have two questions, a technical one and a more general one.
>> 
>> In broad strokes, what are people doing for GUIs? My guess would be using 
>> Morphic, but googling around you find more abuse than use, it looks like, 
>> and very little live links to up-to-date documentation. It makes me wonder: 
>> is there something other than Morphic which is being used? Or is everyone 
>> doing web apps? Or is there some other GUI toolkit I haven't found yet, and 
>> that's where all the action is? Whenever I see a neat Morphic window or 
>> something, I feel a bit like there's a party going on somewhere and I didn't 
>> get an invitation. Like the first rule of Morphic club is you don't talk 
>> about Morphic club.
> 
> Not really truth. :) Now we are cleaning the system and trying to make sure 
> that we understand it.
> However it does not prevent you to learn. Look at Benjamin: (a smart second 
> year students), he built Finder and now he is building
> Nautilus. Start by looking at some examples and ask for feedback. People will 
> help you.
> Now this is clear that the documentation is not at the level it should be. 
> 
>> The general question I have is basically, am I the problem?
> 
> No 
> 
>> Is it that the documentation isn't where I expect to find it, or in the form 
>> I'm used to seeing, or that it isn't relevant somehow in the Smalltalk 
>> universe?
> 
> If you can VisualWorks there is a lot of documentation.
> Now they have engineers too.
> 
>> Or is it all really intuitive except for me? :)
> 
> No I'm often puzzled too. The point is that I learn everyday more about the 
> system and when I do not like the way it is done
> I try to fix it. My main goal is to learn every day. Sometimes this is 
> frustrating but in general it works.
> 
>> I could accept that, I suppose, but how did you Smalltalk wizards become 
>> wizards?
> 
> I do not know. But probably starting to read
>       - mailing-list
>       - read the code
>       - break it by putting the wrong self halt at the wrong place
> The cool aspect of Pharo is that it is really improving day after day.
> And that when there is something ugly you can be sure that one of these days 
> we will fix it. Now we should go step by step.
> 
> 
>> Did you just dive in and start reading the code in your own image?
> 
> Yes.
> When I started been an harvester for Squeak, here is what I did.
>       read the bug report (there was none so it was easy)
>       read the submitted code and if I do not understand pass to the next one
>       until I find something that I can understand
> I still do that everyday. My goal is to have read a lot of the code.
>       
>> Was there some master Smalltalk wizard that you knew who showed you how to 
>> do these things?
> 
> I learned smalltalk alone. 
> Now if you can pair program with somebody this is much cooler.
> You have pharoCasts, have a look at them. 
> 
>> I'm currently reading Smalltalk Best Practice Patterns
> Excellent book
> 
>> and it's one of the best programming books I've ever read. I see that there 
>> is a great deal of mastery of programming going around in Smalltalk circles, 
>> but I don't see the books that take you past beginner towards master,
> 
> You have smalltalk by example (even if it is for VW I like it). It is more 
> about design than Pharo by example and I would like to have one like that in 
> the future but too busy right now. 
> 
>> other than SBPP. So what's the trick going on here? How did you guys become 
>> excellent?
>> 
>> I hope none of this comes across as negative;
> 
> Not at all. We know our problems
> 
>> I think surely it's that I'm missing something.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> — 
>> Daniel Lyons
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

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