Eliot, Lazy is not a word I would use - it *is* a lot of work. I'm closing in on a 1.3 image. Once it's up (this includes a Seaside 2.8->3.0 move), I'll try alien callbacks w/ GSL. It won't happen overnight, but it will be nice to be able to define functions in Smalltalk (thinking roots, LM, etc.).
Perhaps Spock could start out as a facade to make things *appear* unified?? Bill ________________________________ From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Eliot Miranda [eliot.mira...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:27 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: Stef, Some thoughts: (1) I thought Spock would be the unifier. Cool name as a bonus. (2) FFI can do callbacks, it's just not wrapped. Andreas described how to do it, but it's not user friendly. (3) I suspect the reason for the two packages is pragmatism, but I can't speak for those among us who are adept at the vm side of things. Think of me as an applied mathematician and biomedical engineer. I write nice code, but have my limits. try laziness ;) its all work. I haven't found the time to combine them. (4) a unified approach would be most welcome. Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] on behalf of Stéphane Ducasse [stephane.duca...@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.duca...@inria.fr>] Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 4:13 PM To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found On Feb 2, 2012, at 9:31 PM, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Stéphane Ducasse > <stephane.duca...@inria.fr<mailto:stephane.duca...@inria.fr>> wrote: > I'm confused. > Why do you need alien in addition to FFI. > > Because I implemented callbacks in Newspeak's Alien system and then added > support to FFI to accept Alien's callbacks. Replicating the Alien callback > system in FFI can be done, but it'll be the same Alien scheme under the > covers. So why bother renaming all the image support when its already there? yes but why not making alien part of FFI and not forcing people to load two packages if this is part of the functionality? It just add more confusion. Stef > > And loading the latest version is not a way to get reproducible situation. > > Stef > > > we are using it with success... installed this way: > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository'; > > package: 'ConfigurationOfFFI'; > > load. > > (ConfigurationOfFFI project version: '1.5') load. > > > > Gofer it > > squeaksource: 'Alien'; > > package: 'Alien'; > > load. > > > > not sure if you need the both, but having them is easier: you can subclass > > ExternalLibrary, etc.... and use FFI in the old way <apicall:>, and when > > you need a callback you use alien Callback. > > > > (works on pharo 1.3 and 1.4) > > > > best, > > Esteban > > > > El 31/01/2012, a las 7:53p.m., Eliot Miranda escribió: > > > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:03 PM, Schwab,Wilhelm K > >> <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu>> wrote: > >> Eliot, > >> > >> Interesting news... On Linux? Is there a good place to hunt for examples? > >> > >> Yes, on all three platforms. Alien. See > >> http://www.squeaksource.com/Alien/Alien-kb.15 > >> > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: > >> pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >> > >> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>] > >> on behalf of Eliot Miranda > >> [eliot.mira...@gmail.com<mailto:eliot.mira...@gmail.com>] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 2:41 PM > >> To: > >> Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr> > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 12:36 AM, Schwab,Wilhelm K > >> <bsch...@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu><mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu<mailto:bsch...@anest.ufl.edu>>> > >> wrote: > >> Göran, > >> > >> Thanks for what you do, and for noticing what I (at least try) to > >> contribute. Some other "tangible" items in my queue *will* be worth the > >> wait[*]. I sincerely hope you are correct about a misunderstanding being > >> at the base of thread. > >> > >> Hopefully, we can all dust ourselves off [**] and make FFI robust > >> everywhere. > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> Bill > >> > >> [*] I know I've said this for essentially Pharo's entire life cycle, but > >> it's true... Callbacks, my kingdom for callbacks. > >> > >> Callbacks in Cog work. The threaded VM needs work, but synchronous > >> callbacks from blocking FFI calls work now. You may have to integrate > >> image-level code but the VM has support and it works. > >> > >> > >> [**] Some US slang for Stef's benefit :) > >> > >> > >> ________________________________________ > >> From: > >> pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> > >> > >> [pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project-boun...@lists.gforge.inria.fr>>] > >> on behalf of Göran Krampe > >> [go...@krampe.se<mailto:go...@krampe.se><mailto:go...@krampe.se<mailto:go...@krampe.se>>] > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 3:05 AM > >> To: > >> pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr><mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr<mailto:pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr>> > >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Cog+linux: external module not found > >> > >> Hi guys! > >> > >> On 01/09/2012 09:36 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> > On 09 Jan 2012, at 20:06, Schwab,Wilhelm K wrote: > >> >> I think you have the situation very much in reverse. You are flying > >> >> off the handle, not me. > >> >> > >> >> Cog deserves better than to ignore feedback from motivated users. > >> >> Motivated users deserve better than to be insulted for their efforts to > >> >> improve it. > >> > > >> > Pharo, Squeak, Cog, Seaside, and most other Smalltalk software on > >> > SqueakSource is open source, written almost exclusively by people in > >> > their free time. And although most of them will try to help the users of > >> > their software the best they can, they cannot and should not do just > >> > anything unless they want to. The relation between open source authors > >> > and their users should be mutually productive. Using software and giving > >> > feedback if one thing, but it is not enough. It can't be one way all the > >> > time. > >> > > >> > I might be wrong, but I fail to find > >> > > >> > - any issues you put in the issue tracker(s) > >> > - any issues you solved > >> > - any open source software you published on SqueakSource or anywhere else > >> > - any blog post or web pages with documentation, tutorials, .. that you > >> > wrote > >> > > >> > I hope you get the point: there are many more ways to contribute than > >> > what you are doing now. > >> > > >> > Pharo and other projects need all the help they can get, give back to > >> > the community, we are all using software written by others in the same > >> > spirit, it is only fair to honor these contributions. > >> > > >> > My 2c, > >> > >> This thread is long dead but I just wanted to mention that Wilhelm > >> Schwab is a long time Squeaker and has been active in the community long > >> before Pharo was even born. ;) > >> > >> Now, it seems to me that the "heat" in this particular thread was based > >> on a misunderstanding, I know Eliot and it didn't seem to me he was > >> trying to insult. > >> > >> General observation: Try taking it easy on the "what the heck have you > >> done for us?"-talk. I have made several such similar posts too over the > >> years when I got frustrated, but it might backfire if you aren't > >> shooting at the "right people". We take pride in being a friendly > >> community (Smalltalk at large) and I presume Pharo does too :) > >> > >> regards, Göran > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> best, > >> Eliot > >> > > > > > > > > -- > best, > Eliot > -- best, Eliot
