Igor, GemStone's Smalltalk parser/compiler is implemented in C ... I told you that JSON is and was a pragmatic choice ...
The seaside JSON parser is 27 methods and runs without change in GemStone ... this is all covered in the other two threads, so maybe you should spend some time reading up on the issues that have already been hashed over twice so far... Oh wait, now there are now three threads that are covering the "why JSON" question:) Dale ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguc...@gmail.com> | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 5:21:57 PM | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | | On 24 April 2012 03:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenr...@vmware.com> wrote: | > Igor, | > | > A lot of your questions/assertions were addressed in the two | > existing threads ... | > | > Smalltalk parsers are not available in all Smalltalk dialects, so | > again, JSON is and was a pragmatic choice, pure and simple. | > | what? how is that? smalltalk which cannot parse smalltalk? but can | parse JSON? ;) | | > The entire disk-based package structure has a number of warts of | > varying sizes and qualities, but the one thing that is true is | > that we have 5 Smalltalk dialects (with more coming) sharing the | > same package structure and the same version control system ... | > something that has never been true before and _that_ is the most | > important thing right now... | > | that's out of the question | | > Dale | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguc...@gmail.com> | > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 4:07:04 PM | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | > | | > | On 24 April 2012 01:54, Dale Henrichs <dhenr...@vmware.com> | > | wrote: | > | > Igor, | > | > | > | > The short answer is: | > | > | > | > We could have used literal arrays, but it would have taken | > | > more | > | > work up | > | > front than using the existing (portable) Seaside JSON parser. | > | > | > | umm.. what more work? Use if existing Smalltalk parser is more | > | work? | > | | > | IMO, binding to JSON format and introducing dependency is more | > | like a | > | problem to me.. | > | | > | but anyways, since i late on party.. i don't wanna put sticks | > | into | > | already rotating wheel.. | > | | > | you made a decision, if it works for you, fine. | > | | > | P.S. I dealt with JSON when playing with SCouchDB project.. i | > | wouldn't | > | say that i adore this format. | > | but it ok.. yeah.. everyone using it. Still s-expressions is IMO | > | far | > | more elegant. | > | | > | | > | > At this point we have working implementations in 5 different | > | > Smalltalk dialects | > | > written to use JSON for properties files. | > | > | > | > Cypress is designed to be flexible. FileTree the original | > | > Cypress | > | > implementation | > | > reads 3 different disk-based package. We're going to stick | > | > with | > | > the current | > | > implementation for the foreseeable future while we expend our | > | > effort on | > | > problems for which we don't have ready-made solutions. | > | > | > | > Hannes has the correct link for the latter discussion, but the | > | > original discussion took place at the beginning of Feb[1]. | > | > | > | > Dale | > | > | > | > [1] | > | > http://forum.world.st/feedback-on-using-JSON-to-specify-baselines-for-git-repository-td4356301.html | > | > | > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > | From: "Igor Stasenko" <siguc...@gmail.com> | > | > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 2:34:54 PM | > | > | Subject: [Pharo-project] About Cypress [Was: Re: [ANN] Styled | > | > | Text Editor for Cuis 4.0 Smalltalk] | > | > | | > | > | Hi, Dale | > | > | | > | > | it is great to see an effort in such direction. | > | > | I just wonder what .js files doing there? | > | > | | > | > | According to what i see, it is just a meta data which holding | > | > | additional properties per entity.. | > | > | | > | > | { | > | > | "category" : "Cypress-Tests", | > | > | "classinstvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "classtraitcomposition" : "{}", | > | > | "classvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "commentStamp" : "", | > | > | "instvars" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "name" : "CypressPatchTest", | > | > | "pools" : [ | > | > | ], | > | > | "super" : "CypressAbstractTest", | > | > | "traitcomposition" : "{}", | > | > | "type" : "normal" } | > | > | | > | > | why you cannot use a regular smalltalk literal syntax for | > | > | this | > | > | data? | > | > | What/why there is need to store this data in json format? | > | > | | > | > | On 23 April 2012 23:57, Dale Henrichs <dhenr...@vmware.com> | > | > | wrote: | > | > | > Bernhard, | > | > | > | > | > | > With regards to sharing code between dialects, I'd like to | > | > | > recommend that you look into porting Cypress to Cuis (I'm | > | > | > willing | > | > | > to help as much as I can). | > | > | > | > | > | > The Cypress project is aimed from the get go to enable | > | > | > sharing | > | > | > of | > | > | > packages between Smalltalk dialects with a recognition that | > | > | > possibly the most important aspect is a shared VCS | > | > | > (git/github). | > | > | > | > | > | > If you look at the current code base in Cypress, you will | > | > | > see a | > | > | > reference implementation written against Pharo. The | > | > | > reference | > | > | > implementation is a work in progress and the initial | > | > | > implementation was done for Amber[2]. | > | > | > | > | > | > Cypress has Monticello-like packages, but other than taking | > | > | > a | > | > | > few | > | > | > ideas from Monticello (definitions, packages and snapshots | > | > | > ... | > | > | > more than a few:)) the code base is independent of | > | > | > Monticello. | > | > | > The | > | > | > fact that Cypress runs on top of Amber (sans file system | > | > | > access) | > | > | > speaks volumes for it's portability. | > | > | > | > | > | > To paraphrase a point from my STIC talk[3] on this subject: | > | > | > | > | > | > Cypress is not intended to be the primary version control | > | > | > system for any dialect, however, if you want to share code | > | > | > between dialects you should allow your developers to | > | > | > import | > | > | > and export code using the Cypress package format. | > | > | > | > | > | > If you are interested, there are bits and pieces of code in | > | > | > a | > | > | > few | > | > | > other projects that I would want to pull into the Cypress | > | > | > project | > | > | > and couple other things that I'd like to move out of the | > | > | > Cypress | > | > | > project before tackling another port ... | > | > | > | > | > | > We can correspond via private email if you'd like to take | > | > | > me up | > | > | > on | > | > | > the offer of help:) | > | > | > | > | > | > Dale | > | > | > | > | > | > [1] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/Cypress | > | > | > [2] https://github.com/CampSmalltalk/amber-cypress | > | > | > [3] | > | > | > http://portal.sliderocket.com/vmware/STIC-2012-Practical-Git-for-Smalltalk | > | > | > | > | > | > ----- Original Message ----- | > | > | > | From: "Bernhard Pieber" <bernh...@pieber.com> | > | > | > | To: Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr | > | > | > | Sent: Monday, April 23, 2012 9:53:35 AM | > | > | > | Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] [ANN] Styled Text Editor for | > | > | > | Cuis | > | > | > | 4.0 Smalltalk | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Hi Göran, | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Thanks for your question! I have posted the announcement | > | > | > | of | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Styled Text Editor to the Pharo list as well because I | > | > | > | still | > | > | > | have | > | > | > | not given up on the idea to port it to Squeak and Pharo. | > | > | > | It | > | > | > | is | > | > | > | not | > | > | > | straightforward but I consider it possible. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Currently the Styled Text Editor is an external package | > | > | > | which | > | > | > | is | > | > | > | loaded on top of Cuis 4.0. The API it uses is quite | > | > | > | specific | > | > | > | to | > | > | > | Cuis | > | > | > | so to port it alone is probably too much effort. What I | > | > | > | think | > | > | > | can | > | > | > | be | > | > | > | done is the following: | > | > | > | Split Cuis into three parts, | > | > | > | a) the parts which are not needed for Styled Text Editor, | > | > | > | like | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Cuis tools | > | > | > | b) the parts of Cuis Morphic the Styled Text Editor | > | > | > | depends | > | > | > | on – | > | > | > | this | > | > | > | is in my opinion the most valuable part of Cuis because | > | > | > | Juan | > | > | > | spent | > | > | > | years cleaning it | > | > | > | c) the Smalltalk kernel below | > | > | > | | > | > | > | The idea is to port only part b) and the Styled Text | > | > | > | Editor. | > | > | > | And | > | > | > | it | > | > | > | has to be done automatically by a tool which creates | > | > | > | packages | > | > | > | for | > | > | > | Squeak and Pharo, always from the latest code base. In | > | > | > | addition | > | > | > | you | > | > | > | will probably need small Cuis portability packages done | > | > | > | manually, | > | > | > | one for Squeak and one for Pharo. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Being able to always load the latest code base of Styled | > | > | > | Text | > | > | > | Editor | > | > | > | and Cuis Morphic as an external package in Pharo is a | > | > | > | prerequisite | > | > | > | to look into possibilities of sharing more of the code. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | I plan to write a more detailed proposal and then to | > | > | > | approach | > | > | > | ESUG | > | > | > | and ask for support for the funding. Any ideas for other | > | > | > | sources | > | > | > | of | > | > | > | funding are highly welcome and could speed things up | > | > | > | considerably, | > | > | > | of course! ;-) | > | > | > | | > | > | > | I for one have not given up on the idea that it might be | > | > | > | possible | > | > | > | to | > | > | > | develop substantial components as you called it – thank | > | > | > | you | > | > | > | for | > | > | > | that | > | > | > | as well – in a more Squeak-dialect-independent way. ;-) | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Finally, I would like to take the opportunity and kindly | > | > | > | ask | > | > | > | everyone | > | > | > | who has not done so yet: Please check out Cuis 4.0 and | > | > | > | the | > | > | > | Styled | > | > | > | Text Editor and give us feedback, even if it does not | > | > | > | (yet) | > | > | > | run | > | > | > | on | > | > | > | your favourite Squeak dialect! Thank you! | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Peace, | > | > | > | Bernhard | > | > | > | | > | > | > | P.S. Thanks to Göran and Janko for trying to establish | > | > | > | different | > | > | > | threads for the rather off-topic discussions that my | > | > | > | announcement | > | > | > | posting has caused. | > | > | > | | > | > | > | Am 23.04.2012 um 16:04 schrieb Göran Krampe: | > | > | > | > Hi! | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > On 04/23/2012 03:40 PM, Stéphane Ducasse wrote: | > | > | > | >>> Just cloning it off into Pharo and forking seems... | > | > | > | >>> less | > | > | > | >>> optimal. | > | > | > | >>> Any ideas or thoughts? | > | > | > | >> | > | > | > | >> I do not get what you mean. I just want to work on our | > | > | > | >> roadmap | > | > | > | >> and | > | > | > | >> make it getting real. | > | > | > | >> It is hard enough to get some momentum and to deliver | > | > | > | >> for | > | > | > | >> real. | > | > | > | >> So can you help us to get focused? | > | > | > | >> People can do what they want. I wrote a vision | > | > | > | >> document. | > | > | > | >> We | > | > | > | >> have a | > | > | > | >> roadmap | > | > | > | >> and we will do it. | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > Ok, let me clarify. I was just wondering how the Pharo | > | > | > | > community | > | > | > | > wants to handle a case where a substantial component | > | > | > | > (in | > | > | > | > this | > | > | > | > case, this new editor) is not *primarily* developed in | > | > | > | > Pharo | > | > | > | > (in | > | > | > | > this case Cuis). | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > The simple route is to just copy and fork. But IMHO | > | > | > | > this | > | > | > | > doesn't | > | > | > | > leverage the team already around this editor, right? We | > | > | > | > (Pharo) | > | > | > | > can't just go around and forking everything and | > | > | > | > maintaining | > | > | > | > everything for ourselves, right? | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > I just got interested in that problem - now, later | > | > | > | > replies | > | > | > | > indicated that it would still need a substantial | > | > | > | > rewrite | > | > | > | > for | > | > | > | > Pharo, so perhaps the situation I am describing is not | > | > | > | > really | > | > | > | > applicable in this case. | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | > regards, Göran | > | > | > | > | > | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | > | > | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | -- | > | > | Best regards, | > | > | Igor Stasenko. | > | > | | > | > | | > | > | > | | > | | > | | > | -- | > | Best regards, | > | Igor Stasenko. | > | | > | | > | | | | -- | Best regards, | Igor Stasenko. | |
