Hi Kilon, disclaimer: I've used Parcplace Smalltlk without namespaces, then VisualWorks with namespaces.
2017-10-13 9:08 GMT+02:00 Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com>: > Personally I dont get it, we find the path to bootstrap the pharo image > clear and we cannot see the path to namespaces ? > Because namespaces, by essence, come with serious issues. I won't take someone seriously on namespaces until he can cite those faithfully. > > it makes zero sense to me > > Plus what you say, countless and countless of implementation of namespaces > out there. And again what you say about perfection. > > If C++ can improve, If C++ can dream of namespaces planning the > introduction of modules(in future version) in replacement (not removal) of > his awful header file format.... I think we got the excuse to be confident > we can come up with something decent. > C++ is about adding incidental complexity to the development process, i.e. how to make something complex where it could be done in a simpler way. So I'd be very wary of any innovation coming from that direction. > > We develop a freaking IDE for crying out loud. > > No it wont be a walk in the park, no it wont get done in one or next > version, and no it cannot be an individual our outside effort. But we have > the community super qualified to do it. > And qualified enough maybe to also see it doesn't make that much of sense. Please remember that the design of a programming language consists not just in a laundry list of features, but also in making judicious choices of what to *omit* and, more importantly, in establishing design principles that are easy to understand [Steele, 2003] Thierry > On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:51 AM Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 8:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <s...@clipperadams.com> >> wrote: >> >>> horrido wrote >>> > Having separate namespaces would be really good. >>> > VisualWorks has them. Why not Pharo? >>> >>> I can't remember ever hearing disagreement on this subject. It seems the >>> only questions have been: 1) how to do them *right*, >> >> >> The default position would be leveraging someone else's experience, so >> this begs the question, what is wrong in namespace implementations in VW, >> Gemstone, Squeak (as our immediate neighbours, then plus Dolphin, >> SmalltalkX, other languages) >> Are there been any research papers around comparing these? >> >> I found the "Pharo on Gemstone VM" talk impressive. The "develop on >> Pharo deploy on Gemstone" philosophy seems like a nice synergy for Pharo's >> commercial future. So a naive approach would be to do namespaces just like >> Gemstone. Maybe its not the best, but would it be "good enough" -- >> perfection being the enemy of done and all that jazz. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> >>> and 2) where they fall on the endless prioritized todo list >>> >>
