"Saying that it has never happened to me is a little like saying I've smoked for 30 years and I don't have cancer."
What a great analogy, Fred -- I couldn't agree more. I, for one, don't put any money into my PayPal account, keeping my balance at zero pretty much 24-7. I also agree with the concept of once bitten, twice shy, and am very sorry for what happened to you. I do know smokers who've lost loved ones to lung cancer but still haven't stopped smoking. I guess to some, it's worth the risk. I admit, I love the service, but you're right, I do kinda keep it at arm's length, which is something I'd suggest to everyone and anyone dealing with internet activity on one's bank account. Best, r. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Williams" <phonof...@msn.com> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l@oldcrank.org> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: Re :Paypal Was: [Phono-L] paypal and ebay, was Re: eBay Scam Listing Be on your guard in case what happened to us happens to you. Never leave any money in your Paypal account any longer than is absolutely necessary. If the shut you down you will not be able to access you account until they are satisfied with the highly personal information they'll want from you. Saying that it has never happened to me is a little like saying I've smoked for 30 years and I don't have cancer. It will happen out of the clear blue without warning. No matter what Paypal or ebay say. THEY ARE NOT YOUR PAL. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Wright<mailto:esrobe...@hotmail.com> To: Antique Phonograph List<mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] paypal and ebay, was Re: eBay Scam Listing Fred, I don't think that's what Peter was implying at all, but was only imparting his experiences to the group, like yourself. PayPal certainly did have a rough period about 2 years into operations (I think, don't quote me) that garnered a class-action lawsuit that PayPal paid out a LOT of money for. But I was a PayPal'r within months after it had been set up, and through all the awkward growth, I never had a single problem with them on any level, though many others certainly seem to have. Meanwhile, I was encouraged to see more and more eBay sellers offering the service in their listings, but my purchases were minimal enough that I was really ok one way or the other, frankly. Then I began to discover, as both a buyer and a seller, that I simply didn't enjoy messing with buying or selling if it meant going to the post office for money orders and stamps, holding packages in line, the whole bit, so I began limiting myself to only items that gave the PayPal option. I've been having a blast ever since, and sellers are thrilled to find payment waiting for them before they've even seen that the auction had closed. But it wasn't until eBay bought the company and the concept and all the accounts, what, I guess a year or two ago?, that I began branching out and making purchases AND sales of many thousands of dollars per transaction (high-dollar audio gear). I also set up a UPS account so that the packages I ship are picked up from my home... With these two services, there's simply no looking back. I had always been fine with PayPal -- at this point, I am absolutely thrilled to sing its praises from the rooftops. They're not the same company, neither run nor owned by the people who caused all the trouble those years ago, as they were earlier on, and I wouldn't want to shop or sell on eBay OR audiogon.com (where sellers routinely at "PayPal users add 3%" to their listings) without the service. Lastly, it's not eBay, and it's not PayPal. It's these scumbag sellers, and guess what -- they're everywhere, not just on eBay!! The fraud seller whose listing was removed this morning had 0 feedback. If eBayers can't make smarter decisions than to send thousands of dollars to someone in Japan with no feedback, they deserve to be scammed! (At least it's the kind of mistake you only make once!) We would certainly research our sellers in other states (and moreso other countries) before buying a $1000+ piece of machinery, sight unseen. If we can adopt a new forum for buying and selling, i.e. the internet, we should also be prepared to adapt to its particular idiosynchrasies with regard to avoiding being bitten by scammers. But let's put the blame where it belongs, the scumbag scam artist sellers, and do what we can to continue educating ourselves and each other as much as possible to arm against them. Best to all, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Williams" <phonof...@msn.com<mailto:phonof...@msn.com>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:02 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] paypal and ebay, was Re: eBay Scam Listing http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=paypal+complaints&btnG=Google+Search<ab <http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=paypal+complaints&btnG=Google+Search<a b> out:blank> Here Peter, I did it for you. I suppose all of these 180,000 hits are just full of baloney like me. You obviously think I am pulling your leg or not telling you the whole story but that is not the case. I truly do hope this never happens to you. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Fraser<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net>> To: Antique Phonograph List<mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:39 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] paypal and ebay, was Re: eBay Scam Listing i've sold hundreds of bucks worth of stuff on ebay and have used paypal for most of it, and have never paid a penny in fees to paypal. nor have i ever had any problem with them, whatsoever. gee, what am i doing wrong? On Feb 25, 2005, at 6:13 AM, funk wrote: > All of this has been discussed in the past ad nauseum. Bottom line > is, and > always has been, this: It's great for buyers; horrible for sellers. > The 3% > bleed hurts. For the seller, it's fees, fees, fees, and then another > 3% to > close the deal. UGHHH. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Fraser" <pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alam edanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net>>> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l@oldcrank.org<mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org<mailto:phon...@oldcrankorg <mailto:phono-l@oldcrank.org>>> > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 10:02 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] paypal and ebay, was Re: eBay Scam Listing > > >> I'm interested to hear why anyone would say this. A free service that >> saves me the effort of finding an envelope and a stamp, accurately >> addressing the envelope, writing out a check, and going to a post >> box...plus the week for it to get to the seller, and the week some >> sellers "need" for the check to clear (or worse, those that require a >> postal money order, which requires a 20 minute wait in line at my post >> office) - what's not to like? >> >> Perhaps those who criticize it ought to try it before doing so. It's >> **extremely** convenient, which is why it's such a success. >> >> Users are only charged when they add credit card capability to their >> account - just like any other credit card fee - but for everyone else, >> it's free. So where exactly is the "corporate greed" in that? >> >> On Feb 25, 2005, at 5:25 AM, someone wrote: >> >>> Paypal has always been nothing other than an insidious example of >>> egregious >>> corporate greed. I have never used it and never will. A >>> convenience? >>> HA >> >> -- Peter >> pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alame danet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org <mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org>> >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail <http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermai l> /phono-l/> > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org <mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org>> > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail <http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermai l> /phono-l/> > > -- Peter pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alame danet.net<mailto:pjfra...@alamedanet.net>> _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org <mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org>> Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail <http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermai l> /phono-l/> _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org> Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail /phono-l/> _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org<mailto:Phono-L@oldcrank.org> Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/<http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail /phono-l/> _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list Phono-L@oldcrank.org Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
