Re: [PHP-DEV] The PHP Platform

[Ken Egervari]

Although your arguments make sense for speed, this is tradeoff that many programmers are willing to take.  As for taking "tons of time to load", although I have noticed a large slowdown, it's not critical and nothing a better server can't solve if it does become critical. I'd rather develop a website in half the time and spend more money on a server than do it slower and harder.  No one wants to work hard. As for the data layer, I think simple calls like that don't constitute a data layer at all.  You still might have database code all over the website, and many of the related things like adding/updating/deleting/searching/whatever on a single entity can be across several pages.  In my library, I have a concept called "Data Access Objects".  It makes development of the data layer very easy - almost mindless as a matter of fact - and I can actually create an entire tier that completely decouples database calls from application logic completely.  This is something pear doesn't do and I think this is essential for webpages because a) they need to change all the time b) database code, php code and html code on the same page is messy c) this is how large enterprise systems need to be built. I think that should give you an explanation on why PHP still needs to develop.  If not, then PHP should outright states its goals and intentions to everyone because people like myself who are waiting for things to move forward (because we have a lot of code invested into the language already) want to move forward with it.  That just isn't happening from my point of view. To argue your point about performance, look at any emerging technology in the past.  History has shown that coming up with the technical solution that works and solves people's problem is essential.  Once something is in place, then we start looking at how to speed it up.  But if we don't even get to the point of it working and solving people's problems, then we aren't going anyway. Regards, Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ilia A." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Ken Egervari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Richard Heyes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2002 5:48 PM Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] The PHP Platform > Ken, > > Many classes and for Java & .NET and even php very own PEAR are libraries of > bloat. They offer some functionality and in exchange take away tremendous > amount of extra resources. That is not to say all those classes and libraries > are written poorly, many are not, however no matter how good is a wrapper it > will always add slowdowns. > In php (at least 4.X) loading large classes to memory is VERY memory cosuming > and loading huge libraries will put a large strain on system with medium to > heavy use. > Most people do not need PEAR or other assistance libraries for most of their > code, especially in PHP where standard functions are VERY easy to use and > their is a function for almost every occasion :) > In many cases, like with database layers you can avoid class by simply using: > > $db_type = 'mysql_'; or $db_type('pg_'); etc... > and then calling php's database manipulation functions with $db_type prefix. > > So, in my opinion creating class libraries is counter productive in PHP > enviroment. It makes sence in C & C++ to some degree where to open a socket > you need to do a good deal of work, so a class which accepts a socket & > domain and returns open socket may be very useful. But in PHP where > everything is already done for you there is little need for that IMHO. > > On April 12, 2002 04:53 pm, Ken Egervari wrote: > > Hello Richard, > > > > I don't think people really understand me correctly.  Pear is small in > > comparison to the Java Platform or the .NET Framework.  My library > > extremephp.org is probably around 4-5 times bigger than PEAR and it's not > > even close to being finished yet.  There could be much more to develop to > > make PHP an even greater language to use, but it's not keeping up. > > > > -- > Ilia Alshanetsky > FUDforum Developer > http://fud.prohost.org/forum/ >