On Thursday 01 March 2001 09:17, Boaz Yahav wrote:
I think that Aviv should stick to logical hebrew (which is the standart, as
mentioned by Boaz).
I don't use IE (I'm using Linux) and I can access all the logical sites with
no problem, including the "<html dir=rtl>" tag and the 'direction: rtl' style (thank
god for konqueror).
Netsacpe 6/Mozilla should support logical Hebrew pretty soon so no trouble
there, and if Opera wants to gain market share they shold support the
standart (logical) in here to.
Altough the 3% estimate seems wrong (as noted by Manuel Lemos - Hi :-) , the
majority of users in Israel are using IE.
One more problem you'll have with visaul hebrew is the ugly line breaks which
cause the end of the sentence to appear before the start of it.
I had a long discussion of this subject with Manuel off this mailing list. I
can send you a digest of it if you wish.
--
Meir Kriheli
There's someone in my head, but it's not me - Pink Floyd
> Hi Manuel,
>
> All is great, working hard to make WeberDev.com a better place
> for the community and trying to make people understand we don't
> make $$$ from it :)
>
> The IE / NN war was one that left no chance for NN in Israel.
> While MS spent millions in making all of their products in Hebrew,
> including the free IE, NN refused to support Hebrew.
>
> While the 3% is correct for Israel, it's far from being true on an
> international basis.
>
> There are 3 large portals in Israel, 1 supports only IE (MSN),
> and the other two that supported NN, until not long ago, started
> to develop for IE only about 4-6 months ago.
>
> This is why there is no reason to support anything other than
> IE in Israel.
>
> With all due respect to people that like other browsers, developing
> for all browsers costs lots of $$$ and as long as portals are free
> and loosing lots of $$$ it's not profitable to develop for all.
>
> Bottom line, as the CTO of one of those portals I say go
> with Logical Hebrew and dump Netscape (In Israel Only).
>
> and don't forget to add the <HTML DIR="rtl"> tag at the
> beginning of each page.
>
> Sincerely
>
> berber
>
> Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!!
> To see where PHP might take you tomorrow.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Manuel Lemos [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 10:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
>
>
> Hello Boaz,
>
> How are you doing these days? :-)
>
> On 28-Feb-01 16:39:35, you wrote:
> >The figures I'm giving you are from one of the two biggest portals in
> >Israel.
> >it's less than 3%.
>
> Mind me for jumping in, but I think Aviv question about the truth of the 3%
> figure ie very pertinent.
>
> The way I see it it is a gross mistake to assume that the audience of a
> large portal is necessary a reflex of the potential audience of that
> portal.
>
> I also work for a large portal company (not for the Hebrew audience though)
> and I found people making the same large mistake. They looked at the sites
> audience and figure that there is over 90% of Internet Explorer users in a
> site that used IE specific DHTML. Needless to say that it didn't show
> right in Netscape.
>
> Given that sites do not show right in certain browsers, it looks obvious
> that almost nobody using those browsers would show in the browser audience
> rates.
>
> I even wonder why there are still 3% of users of browsers that do not
> support logical Hebrew display that go to your portal. Same for the 10% of
> Netscape users that go to that other site in my company portal. Maybe
> those are just lurkers that went there and gave up on the site and did not
> return because they could not see right what was in there.
>
> The reality is that it turns out that there is still about 30% os Netscape
> users, meaning that if you force a certain type of display that they don't
> see right, you loose their audience.
>
> Just my .02 EUR. :-)
>
> Manuel Lemos
>
> >I'm not sure about Opera, if you are developing for an Israeli
> >audience, you can simply develop for IE 4.x and up.
> >
> >anyone with any other browser can go and get IE :)
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
>
> From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 4:03 PM
> >To: Boaz Yahav; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
> >
> >
> >Hey!
> >
> >Thank you for the quick reply.
> >
> >I do have some questions regarding your answer.
> >
> > From what I know and have seen so far, there are more than just 3%
> >Internet users in Israel which use Netscape 4.x (I use it myself...).
> >Are you sure that I should just ignore these people, and just use logical
> >Hebrew?
> >
> >Also, quite a lot of people started using Opera lately.. (ain't speaking
> >about Israeli users).
> >Does Opera supports Logical Hebrew? If so, from which version?
> >
> >
> >Best Regards -
> >
> > Aviv Revach
> >
> >At 15:20 28/02/01 +0200, Boaz Yahav wrote:
> >>Hi Aviv
> >>
> >>Let me give you a small tip about Hebrew on the net.
> >>
> >>The proper Hebrew code which was adopted by the Israeli Institute of
> >>Standards
> >>is the Logical standard. This standard is automatically supported by IE
>
> 4.x
>
> >>and 5.x
> >>and also by Netscape 6.x.
> >>
> >>The percentage of not IE4.x or 5.x users in Israel is less than 3%.
> >>
> >>3 of the major portals in Israel (Walla, Nana and MSN) are already moving
> >
> >to
> >
> >>logical Hebrew.
> >>
> >>So why use Visual Hebrew?
> >>
> >>In case you decide to go with Visual in any case, did you try hebrevc()?
> >>
> >>Sincerely
> >>
> >> berber
> >>
> >>Visit http://www.weberdev.com Today!!!
> >>To see where PHP might take you tomorrow.
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Aviv Revach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> >>Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 1:43 PM
> >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Subject: [PHP] Hebrew websites transition with php3 ..
> >>
> >>
> >>Hey!
> >>
> >>I've just joined this mailing-list, therefore, first of all, I would like
> >>to say hello to everybody.
> >>
> >>
> >>Now, regarding the issue..
> >>
> >>As some of you might know, handling with Hebrew websites is rather
> >>difficult. Hebrew words often come-out in reversed order (i.e. 'lmth'
> >>instead of 'html').
> >>
> >>I'm working on a php3 script which would help me do the following -
> >>Load an existing HTML file which consists Hebrew words (as well as
> >> English words and HTML tags), then reversing the Hebrew words back to
> >> order.
> >>
> >>The problem I'm dealing with is how to reverse only the Hebrew words and
> >>not the entire
> >>document, which contains HTML tags and English words as well.
> >>The function 'hebrev()' does the process of reversing, but it reverses
>
> tags
>
> >>as well.
> >>
> >>
> >>I would really appreciate it, if anyone will find some spare time to help
> >>me.
> >>
> >>
> >>Thank you in advance -
> >>
> >> Aviv Revach
> >>
> >>XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! -
> >> http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/
> >>
> >>
> >>--
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> >
> >XOR-Coders Mega Programming Resource Site! -
> > http://members.xoom.com/xorcoders/
> >
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>
> Regards,
> Manuel Lemos
>
> Web Programming Components using PHP Classes.
> Look at: http://phpclasses.UpperDesign.com/?[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> --
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