On Fri, May 11, 2001 at 04:55:45PM +0200, Thomas wrote:
> I understand Hartmut very well, but I also understand several points of the
> others.
I know him very well. I have been working with him together over a year.
> I think we all here have at least similar aims (if not the same) concerning PHP
> and it's Documentation.
> Since I'm not experienced enough (yet), I don't talk about the "HOW to realize"
> for now, but
> I want to focus on the - IMHO - two main-issues (instead of fighting about one
> single proposal with a great aim):
Dont take my answer personal, could you break your lines with your emailer
down to a readable size?
> 1.) We should have in mind the average user - also a beginner - which downloads
> a documentation. If he finds it in his native language, he'll DL it. He wouldn't
> ever think that it might be not complete. So a missing function in the doc
> doesn't exist in the language.
> -> We really should care that all functions are available in each
> laguage-version of the documentation (no matter if English or already
> translated). If you do it via a script, splitting up files, shouldn't really
> matter, if most of you are against file splitting, make another proposal, or do
> the script-change (or tell me how I can lean it, and I'll do it).
I have always stated, that all people can make contributions to the
manual. Contributions for the manual have been made in the original
english manual first. If there are some errors, it will be corrected, as
soon one of the editors find some time.
> 2.) Resources for Open Source projects:
> iX, a German magazine, brought it to the point: A big issue for Open Source is
> the motivation to get enough resources.
I know iX very well and I have seen articles which are not in my opinion.
> And a voluntary translator should be rather immediately able to translate text
> and not - extremely spoken - being forced to study computer-science before.
> --> I'd suggest to invest a one-time-work in a step-by-step tutorial for the
> needed environment, to prevent the giving up of an possible translator only due
> to technical problems before he has done anything useful for the Project (The
> same is with being ignored: Egon told me I should apply for an CVS-account, but
> done this, I've been ignored completely - not even a "rejected").
Outch, come on. I have told you to use the resources you can easily find.
If you got no CVS account, this means that Rasmus or some other people off
the PHP core havent had the time to make one.
> If you talk about CVS and download-sizes:
> Here we should also have in mind the person, the resource we want, and not what
> the "applicant has to do" (there are enough other technical necessities). So it
> it's possible for the moment to minimize the DL-size with CVS-commands, why not
> again write a step-by-step-tut?
> But pls. have also in mind for the future, that the number of languages could
> grow as well as the number of additional files in the existing languages (not
> yet translated files, etc. -> more MB).
23 MBs is not so much :) It's is only timeconsuming if you try to checkout
the first time. And if you read the PHP-DOC mailinglist, you can be shot
with a 8 MB diff by Rui Hirokawa.
> To make a long story short:
>
> Please don't "beat down" one single proposal, but think cool about the
> user's/translator's needs and about possible ways to realize them (M$ is only
> that big, because it was able to motivate users to buy, and also motivate people
> to work for them. And they motivated People and magazines to advertise for them
> {not like the last PC-Magazine-Article about PHP}).
>
> I think with that focus in mind we can only win!
Please download the manual and translate. If you made some mistakes it
doesnt hurd me. There are now several peoples around me who can correct
it.
If you have some time early July, visit me on the hills in Stuttgart. I
hope Rasmus will also be there and you will get your CVS account very
soon.
-Egon
--
LinuxTag, Stuttgart, Germany: July 5-8 2001: http://www.linuxtag.de/
All known books about PHP and related books: http://php.net/books.php
Concert Band of the University of Hohenheim: http://www.concert-band.de/
First and second bestselling book in German: http://www.php-buch.de/
