I like the idea of plone's bootrap.py that install plone I have not understood what you want to cover about the system dependencies. Do you install missing dependencies ? Warn the dev of missing stuff ?
Also using python to install python is quite disturbing (thinking of buildout.python) I often show how I setup a computer to be Plone ready (dev purpose only). For me it means having good python (2.4 & 2.6) with all system dependencies (libjpeg, zlib, libxml, libxml , *-dev) + a buildout for tools (https://github.com/toutpt/mypythontools -> default.cfg, .gitignore, ...) Next to that you are ready to use buildout provided by addons or do a new buildout 5 seconds and installing a plone is like type bin/buildout -N and having a plone in 10 seconds because you already have it in the user's eggs-directory, so you can work on your addon, theme, ... Regards / Cordialement, JeanMichel FRANCOIS Le 11 mars 2012 10:20, David Glick <davidgl...@groundwire.org> a écrit : > On 3/11/12 12:46 AM, Martin Aspeli wrote: > > > > On 11 March 2012 06:58, Mikko Ohtamaa <mikko+pl...@redinnovation.com>wrote: > >> >> >>> Last night while talking to Clayton and Liz about the whole >>> ZopeSkel/Paster/Templer/Crushinator situation it became clear that the >>> story for new developers is a complete mess. >>> >>> This is bad, and having a new shinny thing that "eases" Plone >>> development just made the situation even worse -- as long as someone must >>> use it and then <zopeskel create> & <paster addcontent>. >>> >>> Time to kill most of the available options, focus on **just one** >>> and have a compelling story to tell to newcomers. >>> >>> >> +1 for cleaning up the old stuff before inventing new stuff >> >> A good step would be making buildout just work, as it is indented >> > > Yay for stop energy. :-/ > > I want a solution that works now to a very specific problem: people > expect to be able to use an OS-managed/system Python to develop with Plone. > And when they try, their environment breaks in all kinds of hard-to-debug > ways. > > I don't want a framework or something with a million things that can go > wrong. plone-devstart is a dirt simple script using nothing but the Python > standard library. And, crucially, it scans the environment looking for > known/common problems. > > I'm more concerned about the overlap with the installers, though that's > a slightly different discussion again. > > The point is that *once you have a stable/clean environment*, you can > have all kinds of good tools. But if you can't get those tools to install > or run, you're screwed. Even if buildout should "just work" you still need > to install it. And you still need to worry about whether you have the right > Python version. And you may still be missing PIL C library dependencies, or > have a poisonous libxml2 killing lxml dead in your global library, or be > missing Python headers or a C compiler. None of those are within Buildout's > scope, and they are causing real problems for real people *today*. > > > Thanks for working on this, Martin. It sounds like a great tool and I'm > looking forward to giving it a try. > > We do also really need to fix the ZopeSkel situation. Right now a ton of > tutorials give instructions for it that just don't work with the new > version, which is a huge huge barrier for newbies. But having ZopeSkel > implementation and docs in sync is a different problem than getting a > working development set up, so I don't understand the stop energy from > people. plone-devstart and ZopeSkel are complementary tools. > > David > > > > *David Glick* > Web Developer > davidgl...@groundwire.org > 206.286.1235x32 > > The NPO Engagement Party 2012. <http://www.npoengagementparty.com> So > much more fun than the wedding reception. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Product-Developers mailing list > product-develop...@lists.plone.org > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-product-developers > >
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