Josh, Thanks a long ton for the effort you've put in on this. I'm beginning to see the outlines of a really useful system here. I'm especially interested to see that you are thinking of this really as a complete replacement for the PasteScript/ZopeSkel/templer ecosystem, as opposed to just a drop-in replacement for the 'stuff that PasteScript does' (which is how I've been conceiving it).
A couple of comments. First, I really enjoy the thoroughness of your thought system here. You're clearly thinking in a large-scale and systematic fashion, and I'm really happy to see that. I tend to be a lot more slap-dash in my approach and I think your baseline here will serve us well going forward. Much more so than anything I've come up with so far. Speaking of which, that brings me to my second point, which is that I really like the way you've separated out the concept of 'probes' from the concept of 'skeletons'. I think this is really a lot like what I've been aiming for with the 'structures' concept in templer, which is the idea that a set of model files on disk can and should be distinct from the questions used to gather information for them. One of PasteScripts greatest drawbacks in my mind is the fact that a 'template' and the 'vars' used to get information for that template are inextricably intertwined. Structures in templer.core are my attempt at separating these concerns, so that it is possible to have a question whose answer results in a different set of model files being used. The limitation in PasteScript is why ZopeSkel has a question in all of it's templates about which license you want, but always gives you the GPL, regardless of your answer. The 'structures' concept in templer solved this problem but in a very 'band-aid on a arterrial wound' sort of way. :) Your concept of runners bundling probes to gather information, and then selecting appropriate skeletons to complete the process is much more elegant. I had to write some C# .net stuff at the end of last year, and have also been playing with iOS development in XCode. Both of these have been experiences that leave me loving Python more than ever, but the one thing both XCode and VisualStudio have is a great set of project templates to get you started. I'd love to see this system become something like that. An Eclipse or WingIDE plugin allowing folks to use a wizard to set up a project in speedy 1-2-3 fashion would be soooooo cool. Finally, a few questions. How close are you to having reference implementations of a simple one of these in place? Have you begun to move beyond the thought stage and into implementation? Thanks again for all this. It's a great step forward and I hope we can capture some momentum to get it going. c On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:58 AM, Josh Johnson wrote: > Hi all, > Those who I've sprinted with in the past on ZopeSkel know I've been > complaining about PasteScript for a long time. I've finally started working > on something to replace it. > > It's in the second phase of the design process; I'm working on the > implementation plan right now. So requirements are gathered, approach > defined, parameters for the first release are set. The why is worked out, now > I'm on the how :) > > Nothing is set in stone right now, so it's a good time to discuss the project > with interested parties and solicit help and feedback. If you know of other > groups/lists/etc that might be interested, please let me know. > > I'm planning to sprint on the project at the Plone conference in San > Francisco this year (still working out the logistics). > > I will probably establish another mailing list at some point, but I think the > project is relevant enough to ZopeSkel that I'm OK with discussing it here > (objections?). My plan is to ultimately port ZopeSkel/templer to use > Crushinator. It's being designed as a general use toolkit/framework, but it > was designed from the ground up with ZopeSkel in mind. > > #zopeskel is typically emptyish, so it might be a good place to hold off-list > or out of band discussion on Crushinator. (my user name is jjmojojjmojo, by > the way) > > The design document is here: > http://code.google.com/p/lionfacelemonface/wiki/CrushinatorDesign > > I've also presented on the project at a recent TriZPUG meeting, which amounts > to a quick overview/summary. The slides are available at: > http://trizpug.org/Members/jj/crushinator-presentation-07282011/crushinator-presentation.pdf > > Thanks, > JJ > > -- > Josh Johnson > University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill > _______________________________________________ > ZopeSkel mailing list > zopes...@lists.plone.org > https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-zopeskel Cris Ewing -------------------------------------------------- Principal, Cris Ewing, Developer LLC http://www.crisewing.com c...@crisewing.com 1.206.724.2112 _______________________________________________ ZopeSkel mailing list zopes...@lists.plone.org https://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/plone-zopeskel
