Tony, I intentionally avoid those types of tstats, they only work through cloud applications, for various reasons I do not want that sort of thing being under the control of someone's cloud system.
Now that I have found out how to deal with the connection issue I no longer have problems with it. I have my cameras on an island network, I was sniffing my network one day several years ago when I saw strange packets from my cameras connecting to outside locations 3 in China and 1 on Amazon Web services. I quickly created a VLAN and put them all on that VLAN, now they have NO way to get to the outside unless it would be through the ZoneMinder DVR, and that ain't happening. I have learned several things here from you folks in the comments all noted and I am going to test them and make sure that I can put them into operation the next time I run into something like this. Best Regards. On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 3:03 PM Tony Schlemmer <aschl...@comcast.net> wrote: > I recently installed a Nest thermostat. The basic Nest thermostat would > not work based on the attached wires on our old thermostat unless I bought > a extra harness with a small box attached to it. The Nest Learning > Thermostat would work so got one for $50 off back in November. Given the > cold temperatures I waited since if the Nest thermostat would not I at > least had a working dumb thermostat. > > I did not get a chance to install it until this past Friday. I > misconfigured and put electric instead of gas. I bound it to our Wi-Fi and > adjusted the configuration from smartphone app. > > Very simple to use and you can lower thermostat far lower if you are on > vacation or something. Our old Braeburn one was a simple one that you could > hold temperature only. I know the new Braeburn one have Wifi connected ones > as well now. > > > On Feb 1, 2022, at 12:08, Chuck Hast <wch...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Tomas, > > Now that I know how to deal with it, I think it > > is worth it. I do not have to get up and go to > > the tstat to make a temperature change, I just > > grab my phone or computer and do it, If I want > > to reach it from the outside that is what VPN's > > are for. > > > > Most of the IoT devices (thermostats) are > > cloud based only. My first experience was with > > Honeywell. While I was living in Kalama WA, > > I purchased a wireless Honeywell thermostat. > > At that time I did not know better. I followed the > > instructions and connected it, I was able to > > access it from anywhere. Fast forward to > > moving to a place east of Kelso WA, just over > > the ridge that parallels I-5 in that area. the place > > was an RF black hole. The only way you could > > get anything was via satellite. We had Hughes- > > net, (never again, anything but Hughesnet). > > The latency was so high that the Tstat would > > not work. I called Honeywell and asked them > > about being able to connect direct to it, they > > told me no way, that it only worked through > > their cloud service. I explained the latency > > issue with satellite, they said you are out of > > luck. I have since found out that folks have > > hacked the devices and there is a workaround > > for it. I left the device on the wall as I had no > > interest in using it elsewhere. > > > > One of the selling points of the Radiothermostat > > is the fact that it does not require a cloud > > connection to operate, turns out my mistake > > was purchasing a WiFi module off of ebay. It > > still had the old customer key in it and it would > > try to call home. Changing the "call home URL" > > took care of it. Now been over 2 days since I > > did that and it is still reporting correct time. > > > >> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 11:17 AM Tomas Kuchta < > tomas.kuchta.li...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> Thanks for sharing this journey Chuck, > >> This is like inviting some real nasty individual home, who tries to get > >> more of his friends in all the time. > >> Put aside the network engineering challenge, I am rhetorically asking, > is > >> this worth the hassle, risk, time to even consider these devices? > >> Diy sure smells like a lot of work, but, maybe not in the hind sight. > >> -T > >>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022, 11:51 Chuck Hast <wch...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> The actual fix was even easier, there is an advanced > >>> page on the thermostat web page, you go there and > >>> it has the address it is to aim its queries at, all I did was > >>> change it to a local IP on my network and that cooked > >>> it's goose. I now have had not time changes for almost > >>> 2 days, whereas before the longest I got was maybe 4 > >>> hours before it finally got a reply from an address I had > >>> not blocked. Now it tries to connect to a Weather sensor > >>> aggregator and of course gets nothing and drops the > >>> connection. > >>> I have tried to clear out all of the user settings they gave > >>> me instructions on how to "factory" the thermostat but it > >>> never worked. All I needed was to get it to quite obtaining > >>> enough of a connection to change the clock and all else > >>> is good. > >>> The author of the home automation software told me that > >>> there used to be a command that could be sent to the > >>> thermostat to clear it but the manufacturer removed it. > >>> Anyhow it is taken care of, I have full control over it and > >>> that is what I needed. Rogue devices can make life mis- > >>> serable, or end up in the board grinder. > >>> On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 8:55 AM Ben Koenig <techkoe...@protonmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>>> Based on what I've seen there are usually 2 ways to do that. > >>>> The first is to perform a factory reset of the device itself. After it > >>>> reboots it will dial home and tell the cloud that it has been reset, > >>>> clearing the association with a customer's account. > >>>> However, some devices are more "user friendly" and will download > >> settings > >>>> from the cloud after a manual factory reset. In this case it will > >>> retrieve > >>>> the customer's account the moment it connects to the internet. Kind of > >>> like > >>>> how you can't just reset a phone that your friend gave you... > >>>> If it really is pulling that info from their cloud then it's possible > >> the > >>>> only way to resolve this is to have them remove it on the cloud side. > >> If > >>>> their customer server team is competent then you should be able to > >>> explain > >>>> what happened and get it cleared. > >>>> -Ben > >>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > >>>> On Saturday, January 29th, 2022 at 11:50 AM, Chuck Hast < > >>> wch...@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> UPDATE. > >>>>> I replaced the thermostat, the screen was somewhat > >>>>> ugly (according to wife, it had some pixels dark) so > >>>>> that was the excuse to get a replacement. Installed, > >>>>> it worked just fine so I installed the radio (wifi) module. > >>>>> I am expecting to go through the hoops of having to > >>>>> connect to it directly and give it the proper commands > >>>>> and directives so it will then go and connect to my > >>>>> WiFi AP. Low and behold, appears that the WiFi module > >>>>> has some memory and it retained all of the connection > >>>>> info. BUT it turns out that the connections were also > >>>>> being requested by the WiFi module. Indeed the author > >>>>> of the Home Automation software told me to go into the > >>>>> thermostat and try to pull the cloud status: > >>>>> http://IpAddress/cloud. So I did and I got the following: > >>>>> {"interval":300,"url":" > >>> http://my.radiothermostat.com/filtrete/rest/rtcoa > >>>>> ","status":3,"enabled":1,"authkey":"dfcf7d03","status_code":-1} > >>>>> The device still has the authorization key, which I have > >>>>> highlighted above. Now to figure out how to clear it out. > >>>>> It appears that it is going out and connecting, getting > >>>>> enough back to change the clock. I have blocked those > >>>>> IP addresses but I think it is trying another one because > >>>>> I see it again changing the time, I know what is going on > >>>>> so I am not going to sniff it again. Just have to find out > >>>>> how to clear the data out of the radio module. > >>>>> Ain't IoT fun, I have someone's cloud access and did not > >>>>> even know it... > >>>>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 5:43 PM Chuck Hast wch...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>> Well I had to go in and change some directory settings, > >>>>>> still not sure what happened. But was able to save the > >>>>>> file. > >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 5:27 PM Chuck Hast wch...@gmail.com wrote: > >>>>>>> Folks, I have a great transaction capture on Wireshark, > >>>>>>> when I went to save it I get a bitch screen that says > >>>>>>> You don't have permission to create or write to the file: > >>>>>>> test.pcapng > >>>>>>> Funny thing is I have been doing these captures now > >>>>>>> for several days, but this was the best one. I just am > >>>>>>> not sure why this is happening. I started Wireshark with > >>>>>>> elevated access, and I have not stopped it since I saved > >>>>>>> the last file. Never seen this before. I have seen it when > >>>>>>> something did not get started with a needed permission > >>>>>>> level but never seen something change without shutting > >>>>>>> it down and restarting. > >>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 10:58 AM Chuck Hast wch...@gmail.com > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>> I have a batch of Chinese security cameras, one day I was > >>>>>>>> sniffing my LAN and saw these packets that should not have > >>>>>>>> been there, started tracing them down and they were coming > >>>>>>>> from the cameras, they were trying to connect to 4 chinese > >>>>>>>> web sites and AWS. The now are on an island network which > >>>>>>>> routes to nowhere and the only other thing on there is the port > >>>>>>>> that sends all of the camera data to ZoneMinder. Crazy cameras > >>>>>>>> were trying to call home constantly. I cleaned some of it up by > >>>>>>>> giving them all static IP's and getting rid of any DNS info. > >> Some > >>>>>>>> of them still try but a lot less. > >>>>>>>> That was before I started seeing comments on line about the > >>>>>>>> cameras doing the "call home" thing. > >>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 11:56 PM Tomas Kuchta < > >>>>>>>> tomas.kuchta.li...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Like with all other "smart things" you are the product, that > >>>> thing is > >>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>> the bait to connect to you .... I had the same thing with > >>>> environment > >>>>>>>>> sensors this summer. I returned them and got bunch of half > >>> price > >>>> 433MHz > >>>>>>>>> sensors + SDR to receive their signals. > >>>>>>>>> There are still 433MHz remote controlled relays + $5-$10 > >>>> transmitters to > >>>>>>>>> turn them on/off if you do not want to use SBC or Arduino. > >>>>>>>>> What sorry state of affairs, these things could be supper > >>>> useful, only > >>>>>>>>> if > >>>>>>>>> the would hot call home. > >>>>>>>>> -T > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022, 00:00 Chuck Hast wch...@gmail.com > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Well folks here is the capture. This is when the device > >> does > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> time change. > >> > -------------------------SoF---------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> No. Time Source Destination Protocol Length Info > >>>>>>>>>> 1416 6995.707153289 192.168.7.45 192.168.7.1 DNS 129 > >>>>>>>>>> Standard query 0x011d A my.radiothermostat.com > >>>>>>>>>> 1417 6995.743011679 192.168.7.1 192.168.7.45 DNS 283 > >>>>>>>>>> Standard query response 0x011d A my.radiothermostat.com > >>> CNAME > >>>>>>>>>> rtcoa-load-balancer.energyhub.net CNAME > >>>>>>>>>> prod-ext-2-397343966.us-east-1.elb.amazonaws.com A > >>>> 3.214.34.120 A > >>>>>>>>>> 54.209.187.172 A 107.21.255.187 > >>>>>>>>>> 1418 6995.744228645 192.168.7.45 107.21.255.187 TCP 125 > >>>>>>>>>> 35222 → 80 [SYN] Seq=0 Win=2896 Len=0 MSS=1460 WS=1 > >>> SACK_PERM=1 > >>>>>>>>>> TSval=23065200 TSecr=0 > >>>>>>>>>> 1419 6995.795424653 107.21.255.187 192.168.7.45 TCP 121 > >>>>>>>>>> 80 > >>>>>>>>>> → 35222 [SYN, ACK] Seq=0 Ack=1 Win=26847 Len=0 MSS=1460 > >>>> SACK_PERM=1 > >>>>>>>>>> TSval=1316753308 TSecr=23065200 WS=256 > >>>>>>>>>> 1420 6995.796759302 192.168.7.45 107.21.255.187 TCP 113 > >>>>>>>>>> 35222 → 80 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=2896 Len=0 TSval=23065200 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=1316753308 > >>>>>>>>>> 1421 6995.797280360 192.168.7.45 107.21.255.187 TCP 204 > >>>>>>>>>> 35222 → 80 [PSH, ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=2896 Len=91 > >>>> TSval=23065200 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=1316753308 [TCP segment of a reassembled PDU] > >>>>>>>>>> 1422 6995.851194008 107.21.255.187 192.168.7.45 TCP 113 > >>>>>>>>>> 80 > >>>>>>>>>> → 35222 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=92 Win=26880 Len=0 TSval=1316753363 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=23065200 > >>>>>>>>>> 1423 6995.853333530 192.168.7.45 107.21.255.187 HTTP 579 > >>>>>>>>>> POST /filtrete/rest/rtcoa HTTP/1.1 > >>>>>>>>>> 1424 6995.905205495 107.21.255.187 192.168.7.45 TCP 113 > >>>>>>>>>> 80 > >>>>>>>>>> → 35222 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=558 Win=28160 Len=0 > >> TSval=1316753417 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=23065300 > >>>>>>>>>> 1425 6995.912865908 107.21.255.187 192.168.7.45 HTTP 585 > >>>>>>>>>> HTTP/1.1 200 200 > >>>>>>>>>> 1426 6995.935820827 192.168.7.45 107.21.255.187 TCP 113 > >>>>>>>>>> 35222 → 80 [FIN, PSH, ACK] Seq=558 Ack=473 Win=2424 Len=0 > >>>>>>>>>> TSval=23065300 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=1316753424 > >>>>>>>>>> 1427 6995.986668924 107.21.255.187 192.168.7.45 TCP 113 > >>>>>>>>>> 80 > >>>>>>>>>> → 35222 [FIN, ACK] Seq=473 Ack=559 Win=28160 Len=0 > >>>> TSval=1316753499 > >>>>>>>>>> TSecr=23065300 > >> > ------------------------EoF----------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> It is during this transaction that the time change takes > >>> place. > >>>>>>>>>> I never signed up for their cloud service. This took place > >>>> betwen > >>>>>>>>>> Sept when I turned off the A/C and Nov when I turned on the > >>>>>>>>>> heat. Thermostat was on all of the time. And as far as I > >> know > >>>> it > >>>>>>>>>> was talking to the local HA server. > >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:56 PM Chuck Hast wch...@gmail.com > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> I am going to start the logging I tested yesterday back > >> up. > >>>>>>>>>>> I had enabled packet sniffing streaming to a remote > >> server > >>>>>>>>>>> (Wireshark on another machine) so I had it running indeed > >>>>>>>>>>> I thought I had saved that file but when I went to look > >> at > >>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> this a.m. somehow I sent it down the bit toilet... Ohh > >> well > >>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>> is just bits, be a good exercise to get it going again. I > >>>> need > >>>>>>>>>>> to trace things every once in a while knowing how to get > >>>>>>>>>>> the bit stream out of the router to wireshark can be very > >>>>>>>>>>> handy (I am looking these chinese cameras that call home) > >>>>>>>>>>> Now if I can get the manufacturer to do more than respond > >>>>>>>>>>> with scripted replies... > >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 6:17 PM Ben Koenig < > >>>>>>>>>>> techkoe...@protonmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> Whoops looks like I hit the wrong reply button and > >> moved > >>>> this off > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> PLUG list. > >>>>>>>>>>>> In my experience time sync issues are generally always > >>> the > >>>> result > >>>>>>>>>>>> of one > >>>>>>>>>>>> of 3 different root causes. For embedded devices its > >>> often > >>>> simpler > >>>>>>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>>>>> you have no control over the software, it just does > >>>> whatever it was > >>>>>>>>>>>> coded > >>>>>>>>>>>> to do. > >>>>>>>>>>>> #1 is the CMOS battery. If the firmware isn't holding > >> on > >>>> to certain > >>>>>>>>>>>> settings (such as battery failure) then the clock will > >>>> revert. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Normally > >>>>>>>>>>>> this sends you back to 1970 but I've seen more recent > >>>> devices > >>>>>>>>>>>> behave > >>>>>>>>>>>> differently. In your case it looks like the time zone > >> is > >>>> not being > >>>>>>>>>>>> held > >>>>>>>>>>>> properly. > >>>>>>>>>>>> #2 is buggy software on the device that is resetting > >> the > >>>> time. > >>>>>>>>>>>> Could be > >>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>> y2k22 style bug ( hi microsoft! ) or something else > >> that > >>>> it hit. > >>>>>>>>>>>> #3 is the server. Since blocking the IP at the router > >>>> prevents this > >>>>>>>>>>>> issue > >>>>>>>>>>>> then it might just be something stupid on their server > >>> end. > >>>>>>>>>>>> IMO it's a combination of #2 and #3. This type of > >>>> unexpected > >>>>>>>>>>>> behavior is > >>>>>>>>>>>> not uncommon on E.T. devices since they ALWAYS phone > >> home > >>>>>>>>>>>> regardless > >>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>> whether or not you set up an account. It's entirely > >>>> possible that > >>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>> spent > >>>>>>>>>>>> the last 2 years dialing home for your timezone but in > >>> the > >>>> past few > >>>>>>>>>>>> months > >>>>>>>>>>>> the server gave a different response. If you had a > >>> history > >>>> of all > >>>>>>>>>>>> web > >>>>>>>>>>>> traffic to those 3 addresses in the past year you could > >>>> probably > >>>>>>>>>>>> spot > >>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>> change. Maybe they changed the default response to > >>>> unregistered > >>>>>>>>>>>> devices. > >>>>>>>>>>>> It would be interesting to log the actual web traffic > >> and > >>>> see if > >>>>>>>>>>>> you can > >>>>>>>>>>>> spot the data being returned. If you logged all traffic > >>>> for the > >>>>>>>>>>>> past > >>>>>>>>>>>> year > >>>>>>>>>>>> then you could correlate the time you saw the change > >> with > >>>> any > >>>>>>>>>>>> changes in > >>>>>>>>>>>> server responses. > >>>>>>>>>>>> -Ben > >>>>>>>>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 2:50 PM, Chuck Hast > >> < > >>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>> The interesting thing is that I have had this unit for > >>> over > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2 years and it has never done this, it just started > >> doing > >>>>>>>>>>>> it when I turned on the heat. I had shut the HVAC > >> system > >>>>>>>>>>>> down in Sept because the weather did not warrant > >> running > >>>>>>>>>>>> the system. All I did was set the system to OFF on the > >>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat. So it was all powered up. When I set it to > >>> HEAT > >>>>>>>>>>>> I got this funny time change thing. I tested with the > >>> A/C, > >>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>> we have had a nice warm autumn this year, and got the > >>>>>>>>>>>> same thing. So something happened between Sept and > >>>>>>>>>>>> Nov when I turned on the heat. The question is what? > >> Did > >>>>>>>>>>>> the thermostat get hacked somehow, I have tried to do a > >>>>>>>>>>>> factory reset but that does not work either. And since > >>>> these > >>>>>>>>>>>> people will not talk on the phone, I am pretty much > >>> running > >>>>>>>>>>>> out of patience. > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 4:38 PM Ben Koenig < > >>>>>>>>>>>> techkoe...@protonmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> You also want to look at the URL sent as well. Since > >> no > >>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ports are > >>>>>>>>>>>>> open it's unlikely to be using any non-HTTP > >> protocols. > >>>> However if > >>>>>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>> REST API of some sort then the addresses might be > >> part > >>>> of a load > >>>>>>>>>>>>> balancing > >>>>>>>>>>>>> system and may be expecting data for authentication > >> or > >>>> other > >>>>>>>>>>>>> information > >>>>>>>>>>>>> specific to your router. The address is just the > >> server > >>>> being > >>>>>>>>>>>>> asked for > >>>>>>>>>>>>> information, the full URL path is the question. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> What's probably happening is that your "unconfigured" > >>>> device is > >>>>>>>>>>>>> dialing > >>>>>>>>>>>>> home to ask if it is associated with an account > >> using a > >>>> REST API. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> When > >>>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>> gets a no from the server, it loads default settings > >>> and > >>>> probably > >>>>>>>>>>>>> goes > >>>>>>>>>>>>> through this check on a regular schedule. I see this > >> a > >>>> lot with > >>>>>>>>>>>>> cloud-routers as well. Under the hood its openwrt and > >>>> while they > >>>>>>>>>>>>> function > >>>>>>>>>>>>> without the cloud account linked they tend to behave > >> in > >>>> unexpected > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ways. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> -Ben > >>>>>>>>>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 2:19 PM, Chuck > >> Hast > >>> < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>> That is interesting, yesterday I tried all of them > >> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got no route, but doing as you did gave me what you > >>>>>>>>>>>>> got. I have got to fire up Wireshark and get the > >>> sniffer > >>>>>>>>>>>>> going on my router again and capture those packets > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to see what is going on, I know that what I saw was > >>>>>>>>>>>>> that the system was saying that there was no route > >>>>>>>>>>>>> available. Let me get the port that was associated > >>>>>>>>>>>>> with this connection attempts. > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 3:53 PM Ben Koenig < > >>>>>>>>>>>>> techkoe...@protonmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW those are actually up and have ports 80/443 > >> open > >>>> for web > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> access > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to a zenmap no-ping scan. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Although accessing them via a browser is a pain. > >> They > >>>> are using > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-signed certs and appear to be part of their > >> API > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrastructure > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple requests via curl result in redirect http > >>>> response codes > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> so the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers are up but it appears they want to limit > >>>> traffic from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> most > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> sources. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be kind of odd if they are using HTTP > >> calls > >>>> to sync the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Either way since you mentioned that you don't want > >> to > >>>> use their > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cloud > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> system they are probably safe to block. If you > >> bypass > >>>> SSL cert > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> checks > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.214.34.120 actually brings up a real website. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Ben > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, January 5th, 2022 at 11:02 AM, Chuck > >>>> Hast < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Going to tear into it. Sorry state of affairs > >> when > >>>> you cannot > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trust the devices in your own home... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:59 PM Russell Senior > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> russ...@personaltelco.net > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The FCC internal photos (if I have the right > >>>> device) suggest > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> marvell SoC. The photos have a sticker over the > >>>> chip, so I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> identify > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it precisely. There is a largish 8-pin SOIC > >> chip > >>>> in one > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> corner > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like serial NOR flash. If you can get the part > >>>> numbers of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the SoC > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flash, that would help. I don't see an obvious > >>>> serial > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> console in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> photos, but the photos are a bit blurry. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jan 5, 2022, 10:46 Chuck Hast > >>>> wch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The radio is a separate module you can plug > >> two > >>>> of them > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in, a zigbee module and a WiFi module, there > >>> are > >>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other ones also. I have the Wifi module. I > >> will > >>>> see which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of those it is. I will see how to remove > >>> the > >>>> case from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thermostat board and see what is in there > >>>> beside the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am going to start a capture again and see > >>> what > >>>> the port > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is, I thought I had saved the previous > >> capture > >>>> file but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I went to open it, could not find it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is either checking different addresses > >> until > >>>> it finds > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing alive or one of those addresses is > >> being > >>>> activated. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I block the address in the router the time > >>>> stays what I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have set it to. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:34 PM Russell > >> Senior < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> russ...@personaltelco.net > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe this? FCC ID: QO8-WIFI-M-0210 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://fccid.io/QO8-WIFI-M-0210 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 7:16 PM Russell > >>> Senior < > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> russ...@personaltelco.net > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Those addresses are all in AWS address > >>> space, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whois. As > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous commenter suggested, it might > >> just > >>>> be NTP. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> notice > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what port the communication was happening > >>>> over? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered popping the case and > >>>> seeing if > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> serial > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> console port on their wifi module? It's > >>>> reasonably > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> running some ancient version of linux. Is > >>>> there an > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FCC-ID on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> case? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 6:49 PM Chuck Hast > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well folks, I was able to get wireshark > >>> on > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I found > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it is trying to contact these > >>>> addresses: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 54.209.187.172 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 107.21.255.187 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3.214.34.120 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now none are reachable. I am > >> trying > >>>> to figure > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat is trying to reach those > >>>> addresses. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I do a whois, they come up as > >> being > >>>> hosted on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Amazon... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if one of them comes awake > >> every > >>>> so often > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat gets the connection and > >>>> receives a TZ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change... > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far I have not been able to catch it > >>> doing > >>>> so. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When I bought the unit I intentionally > >>> did > >>>> NOT try > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cloud service, I have tried to get > >> proper > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> communications > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> with > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Thermostat but so far only > >>> idiots... > >>>> And they > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a published telephone number. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 4:53 PM Chuck > >> Hast > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> More info, this was the reply I got > >>> from > >>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer > >>>> -----------------------SoF------------------------------------------ > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Radio Thermostat > >>>> radiothermos...@tstatsupport.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1:10 PM (3 hours ago) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Info, me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are sure you have a WiFi > >> module > >>>> in the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Model - > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RTMV-01 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then check out the following to see > >> and > >>>> correct > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> zone so > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat will have the correct > >> time: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How to change time zone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First go to the web portal via a > >>> browser > >>>> * > >>>> https://my.radiothermostat.com/rtcoa/login.html > >>>> https://my.radiothermostat.com/rtcoa/login.html* > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Note you will need to use the > >> desktop > >>>> version of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> web > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> site) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then log in and go to the person > >> (then > >>>> select > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> location) > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> select the location you want and > >> click > >>>> edit > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go to the pull down for time zone and > >>>> select your > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> zone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then click save > >>>> > -----------------------------------EoF--------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly what I have tried to > >>>> avoid, I never > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> registered > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thermostat with their cloud. I > >> have > >>>> my personal > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for not wanting my devices on > >> someone's > >>>> cloud if I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> avoid > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. in this case that is exactly > >> what I > >>>> have tried > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now meantime, since the thermostat IP > >>> is > >>>> static, I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> went > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the firewall and set up a rule to > >> drop > >>>> any packets > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to/from > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the thermostat. No more time change, > >>> and > >>>> I did > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that well > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> over > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and hour ago. I can still control the > >>>> device on my > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LAN > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> just > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropping whatever is trying to reach > >>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This brings up the question, of > >>> who/what > >>>> is it? I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> registered the device with their > >> cloud, > >>>> indeed I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bought > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it because it was one of the > >>> thermostats > >>>> that did > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require you to use an outside network > >>> to > >>>> access > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it, (I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking at you Honeywell, Nest and > >> all > >>>> of the rest > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cloud only based devices). Now to see > >>> if > >>>> I can get > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wire > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shark on a part of the network that > >> can > >>>> see that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> device. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suspend the rule and try to catch the > >>>> packet > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> session. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:41 AM Chuck > >>> Hast > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, should have, not there is > >> not. > >>>> But the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting thing > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that as long as it cannot > >> contact > >>>> the network > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time change. I think I am going to > >> go > >>>> into the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> firewall > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it drop all packets to/from > >> the > >>>> device and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. If that takes care of it > >>> then > >>>> maybe > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to talk > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the LAN but drop anything going > >>>> to/from it on > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WAN > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> side. I would like to see what it > >> is > >>>> talking to. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not been able to catch it. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 11:00 PM > >> Erik > >>>> Lane > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> erikl...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You don't mention this, but since > >>>> it's always 2 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours, is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> zone > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> setting in there that has gotten > >>>> off? Maybe > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> talking to a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NTP > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> server? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 8:49 PM > >>> Chuck > >>>> Hast > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wch...@gmail.com > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Folks, > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not sure where to take this but > >>>> figured that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> would get more > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> info here. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a RadioThermostat CT80. > >> I > >>>> have had it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for several > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years. As the summer wound > >> down. > >>> I > >>>> shut down > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> A/C and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opened the windows in the > >> house. > >>>> Then in Nov > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed to fire > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up the heating, all appeared to > >>> be > >>>> well, but > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat clock was 2 hours > >>> slow. > >>>> I set it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> while > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later see that it has lost 2 > >>> hours > >>>> again. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a home automation > >> system. > >>> I > >>>> checked > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> logs, and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contacted the author. He has a > >>>> CT50 which has > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fewer > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bells > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and whistles than mine but same > >>>> unit. Anyhow > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gave me > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some guidance, in the end I > >> shut > >>>> down the HA > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still would drop the 2 hours, I > >>>> powered the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermostat down > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and removed the WiFi radio, > >>>> powered it back > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up, it > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ran about > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 hours (about 3 hours longer) > >>> and > >>>> never > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dropped > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 2 hours. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Normally it will go between 20 > >>>> minutes and > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an hour > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> after I > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have set it to the correct > >> time, > >>>> then drop > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> back to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> incorrect > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time. So this appears to > >>> indicated > >>>> that it is > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the network that is doing > >> the > >>>> time change > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> something in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the WiFi radio. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am trying to sniff the > >> network > >>>> and see if > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> catch any > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> weird packets. But this is one > >> I > >>>> have not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> before. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My router is a Mikrotik 2011, > >> and > >>>> I have been > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to use > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tools on it to try to > >> monitor > >>>> the IP > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> address > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thermo- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stat and try to see if it is > >>>> talking to > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> else. So > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> far > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no joy. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am wondering about getting > >> wire > >>>> shark in > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to filter those packets that > >> way > >>>> as I am not > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> much luck > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the Mikrotik tools > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations? > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can do all things through > >>> Christ > >>>> which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengtheneth me. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph 4:13 KJV > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me > >>>> fortalece. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fil 4:13 RVR1960 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can do all things through Christ > >>>> which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengtheneth > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph 4:13 KJV > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me > >>>> fortalece. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fil 4:13 RVR1960 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can do all things through Christ > >>> which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengtheneth > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph 4:13 KJV > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me > >>> fortalece. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fil 4:13 RVR1960 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can do all things through Christ > >> which > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strengtheneth me. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ph 4:13 KJV > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me > >> fortalece. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fil 4:13 RVR1960 > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > > -- > > > > Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- > > I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. > > Ph 4:13 KJV > > Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me fortalece. > > Fil 4:13 RVR1960 > > -- Chuck Hast -- KP4DJT -- I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Ph 4:13 KJV Todo lo puedo en Cristo que me fortalece. Fil 4:13 RVR1960
