i would add wilhelm reich to that. get THE ORANUR EXPERIMENT: FIRST REPORT and
then his atmospheric research in which he noted what we call UFOs, in ORANUR,
SECOND REPORT: CONTACT WITH SPACE.
here is some material from william lyne:
http://conspiracycentral.net:6969/index.html?search=lyne&top_submit_search_button=Search
havent read most of what is below, but following up on the issue is on my
agenda at some point.
----- Original Message -----
From: Sean McBride
To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [political-research] Re: MJ12, UFOs and the FBI
A few years ago, in an exchange on cia-drugs with Phoenix from High Times, I
took precisely the position you are taking now. Richard Dolan's book has
pushed me off that position. The government infighting about how to handle the
UFO controversy seems real, many of the UFO sightings and reports seem credible
in a consistent way, and the government coverup appears to be straightforward.
If you give Dolan's book some serious attention (read it carefully from front
to back), perhaps you will also change your mind; maybe not.
If UFOs are a psyop, it is a huge psyop, truly massive. The powers that be
must have big plans for it down the line (probably as a device for establishing
a world government under the cover of a new world religion). But maybe it
isn't a psyop. Perhaps it is as difficult for us to believe that we are being
visited by aliens as it was for previous generations to believe that the world
is round or that our planet revolves around the sun.
I assume you've assimilated all these authors and sources as you approach the
UFO discussion:
Bob Lazar
Budd Hopkins
David Jacobs
Don Berliner
Donald Keyhoe
Howard Blum
Ivan Sanderson
J. Allen Hynek
Jacques Vallee
James MacDonald
Jim Marrs
John Lear
John Mack
Linda Moulton Howe
Nick Redfern
Philip Corso
Raymond Fowler
Richard Dolan
Stanton Friedman
Steven Greer
Timothy Good
Whitley Strieber
William Cooper
For newcomers to UFO controversies, I'd start with Dolan, then do Greer, then
maybe do Corso.
tim_howells_1000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have not really studied this, but I have followed up on some
tantalizing leads, and have always come away disillusioned. Reports
sound totally off the wall when you get a more unvarnished version
of the witness testimony, for example.
Based on what I've seen, this is a massive psyop with many aspects.
I think the MKULTRA crowd is interested from a Jungian angle on the
potential for a new religion for a number of purposes - the ever
popular mass psychosis for example.
Secondly I think this makes a real neat tar-baby for a conspiracy
theorist like myself - just like the 911 no-planers. It's a nifty
kind of reducto ad absurdum for a conspiracy monger like me. I
really don't know how to fight it.
Re the odd response of the govt agencies - my take is that they are
overtly "debunking" but covertly encouraging, and deliberately are
leaving the paper trail that Dolan is writing about to keep the myth
growing.
Tim
--- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Regarding the credibility of UFO reports: Richard Dolan's UFOs and
the National Security State contains hundreds of them, and most of
them ring true to me -- they do not have the look and feel of
fabrications. If you datamine them, you'll see the same patterns
coming up repeatedly in reports from all over the world. Where
there is this much smoke, there is probably fire. There is little
sense in Dolan's survey of the evidence that any governments are in
control of what is going on -- other than control of the cover-up
and systematic ridicule of UFO eyewitnesses. The real action on
UFOs has been buried deep inside the national security state, far
out of the view of the general public.
>
> So: ETs may be real AND certain parties at the highest levels of
the national security state may also be playing ET memes in a
manipulative way. Or, the most disturbing scenario: the highest
levels of the national security state may be under the control of
ETs. It all sounds very crazy, I know. But the universe may be a
wild and crazy place.
>
> Now: if we were being visited by various species of ETs, with
varying and conflicting agendas, and that are answerable to other
parties and interests outside of our solar system whose intelligence
vastly exceeds our own, then the conspiracy possibilities would
break the minds of most human beings. Might as well just go with
the flow and pretend everything is normal.
>
> Albert Underwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote: Agree with Sean's analysis
of alien species, and Vigil's separation of aliens from UFOs is not
necessarily the same phenomen.
>
> Haven't read Dolan, but will check him out on amazon.
>
> YOu wrote:
> >>very credible UFO sightings coming from all around the world,
often from the most reliable of sources, and often supported by
radar and photographic evidence. <<
>
> UFO sightings are often composed of 'adjectival phrases,' an
adjective-noun usage. In above, a source is credible or not, but it
is not more or less credible. Credibility of source is a major
problem in MSM; to cite merely as a 'credible source' is equivalent
of citing an unnamed source with credibility well within the sphere
of unpredictability.
>
> The radar and photo evidence are all quite capable of
manipulation, and images are usually fuzzy, faraway, grainy, very
1960-ish.
>
> I haven't seen the source credibility in reports of UFOs to be
able to ascertain if all available information is used when
conclusions are drawn. A UFO sighting reported by a 'reliable
source' in Bumfuk, Argentina, doesn't exactly inspire my confidence
in the report. If the report would have said, 'the president of
Argentina met today at noon in the town square with a representative
of an alien race,' or similar event, I might find the report more
believable because I know I can find corroborating reports all
across MSM. It just hasn't happened.
>
> An axiom of source credibility is that a credible source must be
visible (identified, named).
>
> Source credibility is damaged by other issues. Our educational
system is loaded with zionists; why should we expect 'the truth'
from intellectuals and 'experts'? If they can establish themselves
as experts with awards and degrees with ease, why would a
single 'expert' have any more believability or credibility than the
results of a debate between Dershowitz and Finkelstein?
>
> Events have believability, credibility, and verifiability when
observed directly. Information not observed directly is second-hand,
and loses credibility and verifiability the further it is removed
from it's source.
>
> From Invisible Enemy:
> "Pre-propaganda promotes social disorder: crime, murders, rapes,
robbery, and defenses of criminals over victims, and uses the legal
system to promote ethnic and racial outrage. The Rodney King and O.
J. Simpson trials of the 1990s are the now-classic examples of
antisocial vehicles carrying the negative messages of race and sex.
Equally destructive pre-propaganda are the ethnic themes of Nazi
racial attitudes, victimization of Jews, Polish brutality and
stupidity, Arab backwardness, violence on the part of Italians, and
bigotry against the Irish that are regular features of print and
cinematic media. Recognizing unfocused hatred as a spontaneous and
common sentiment, pre-propaganda supports political propaganda each
time it designates someone as the source of all misery. ("Any tall
tale will be believed once it enters into the passionate current of
hatred.the less educated and informed people to whom propaganda of
agitation is addressed, the easier it is to make such
> propaganda..")15 Ellul refers to this as the propaganda of
developed nations and characteristic of our civilization, which did
not exist before the twentieth century. It is a propaganda of
conformity.16
>
> Abboud cites Jacques Ellul classic Propaganda. Check this link:
> http://www.voxpublishing.com/IE/TheMassMediaIE.pdf
>
> Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Some UFOs are probably top secret
craft under the control of terrestrial governments and companies.
But quite a few others have exhibited behavior that is well beyond
the capabilities of earthly technologies, especially in the fifties
and sixties. See Richard Dolan. I haven't read William Lyne.
>
> Vigilius Haufniensis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> whether we are or have been visited by extraterrestrials is a
separate question from the UFO phenomenon. i think its plain that
these craft are top secret military industrial atmosphere-to-space
craft. i think they are also powered by what tesla
called "starlight." has anyone read william lyne's material?
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sean McBride
> To: political-research@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [political-research] Re: MJ12, UFOs and the FBI
>
>
> I've usually leaned to the belief (quite strongly) that the
entire UFO meme is a psyop that, down the line, will be used to
justify one bit of chicanery or another by power elites against
humanity. But Richard Dolan's book made me wonder -- you should
try reading it in its entirety. It may be one of the most
important conspiracy books ever to come down the pike.
>
> Dolan's focus is on infighting within the American government --
especially within the military and intelligence communities --
about how to handle the flood of very credible UFO sightings coming
from all around the world, often from the most reliable of
sources, and often supported by radar and photographic
evidence. As Dolan tells the tale, one senses authentic
confusion and alarm in the government over UFOs, not a
Machiavellian calm in foisting an elaborate hoax upon the
public. Apparently the government, and the CIA in particular
(which has been intensely interested in UFOs from its founding),
decided in the early 1950s to put a lid on the UFO story for the
public while intensively pursuing its investigation of UFOs in
secrecy. The government was especially worried that letting out
the truth about UFOs would lead to mass hysteria and social chaos,
once the human race realized that its official authorities were
absolutely
> powerless to deal with the phenomenon.
>
> I would be curious to get your take on Dolan's book.
>
> Theoretically, I have no problem believing that we might be
being visited by alien species. The universe may be inhabited by
millions of life forms and civilizations that are much more
advanced than the human race in the year 2007. Taking into account
the rapid evolution of our technology during the last 100 years,
consider what we might be capable of in 1,000 years if we
survive. What about civilizations that might be 10,000 years
ahead of us in development?
>
> According to supposedly reliable inside government sources
(some of whom have been interviewed by Project Disclosure), we are
being visited by multiple species. Are they lying? Maybe.
Simply dismissing UFO stories as nonsense may be a mistake.
>
> Consider how the human race has treated "lower" species over
its lifetime. How might "higher" species treat us? As
livestock? Sushi? Beasts of burden? Lab rats?
>
> tim_howells_1000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Call me sceptical, but until I can be introduced to one of
the "visitors" count me out on this one. It's a psyop all the
way IMO. I notice that Dolan attributes the murder of James
Forrestal to the great UFO coverup ... There just might be
more terrestrial interpretations for that one.
> http://www.book-of-thoth.com/sections-viewarticle-33.html
> Tim Howells
>
> --- In political-research@yahoogroups.com, Sean McBride
<smcbride2@> wrote:
> >
> > Sent to you by Sean McBride via Google Reader: *MJ12*,
*UFOs* and the
> > FBI via Google Blog Search: Majestic-12 OR MJ-12 UFO OR
UFOs by unknown
> > on Apr 29, 2007 Amazingly, next month will mark the 20th
anniversary of
> > the first public airing (in Timothy GoodâEURO(tm)s book
Above Top Secret) of
> > the so-called MJ12 documents that captured the imagination
and
> > attention of the entire ufological field for ...
> > Things you can do from here:
> > - Visit the original item on Google Blog Search: Majestic-
12 OR MJ-12
> > UFO OR UFOs
> > - Subscribe to Google Blog Search: Majestic-12 OR MJ-12 UFO
OR UFOs
> > using Google Reader
> > - Get started using Google Reader to easily keep up with
all your
> > favorite sites
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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6/12/2007 9:42 PM
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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