and whatif any, was the improvement ??? ie. "tangible benefit?? they built their OWN hovel, everything from the land was the lords property, and when they hid in the castle they were the expendable first line of defense..... thus the word from the era....PAWN
On 9/19/08, rigsy03 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The lords protected the serfs- gave them a patch of land and a hovel- > a walled castle to flee to in times of trouble... > > On Sep 19, 3:08�pm, "Mark Kahle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > the bailout will cost the american taxpayer one TRILLION dollars... > > whether it works or not. > > > > it will cost the institutions , banks, and CEOs that caused > > it.......... NOTHING. > > > > There is NO PAYBACK to the PEOPLE paying it. > > > > Is THIS the CAPITALIST SYSTEM �you are always spouting off about?? > > sounds more like FEUDALISM to me.... and it actually is. The serfs pay > > the debts of the LORDS and recieve no tangible benefit. > > > > On 9/19/08, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meltdown?!?!?!?!? > > > > > And yet the Dow is now nearly back to where it ended the week last > > > week. > > > > > Imagine that. > > > > > Something you will Learn Frank is that we American's are very > > > resilient... > > > > > We have been through MUCH worse. > > > > > On Sep 18, 11:11 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > The meltdown is a global phenomenon, not a national phenomenon. The > > > > bankruptcy of the GES's is a result of the meltdown not the cause > > > > which is bound up within the inner contradictions of capitalism > > > > itself. Americans in particular revile at this prospect which > > > > challenges very the core beliefs of the American people as a people > > > > and as a nation. Beliefs change nothing, they are opinions not fact. > > > > Capitalism is the root cause of ALL problems facing mankind, it is not > > > > the solution. This is a fact. > > > > > > On Sep 19, 2:38 am, piratelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > The meltdown in great part happenned because of the Government;s GSE > > > > > and the perception it caused..... > > > > > > > On Sep 18, 7:33 am, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > This is not simply a product of greed. Capitalism clearly does not > > > > > > work.If it did this meltdown would not be occuring, they would have > > > > > > seen it coming and acted accordingly. It has happened twice to this > > > > > > degree before (1929 & �1895) As well as 1987, 1998 and 2001. It is a > > > > > > global meltdown with its epicenter in the US (world's largest > > > > > > economy) > > > > > > not a democrat or a republican meltdown. > > > > > > > > If a world socio-economic system is dependent on the honesty of a > > > > > > minuscule handful of people, in the form of bankers and government > > > > > > officials to operate efficiently--in other words 0000.1 of the > > > > > > worlds > > > > > > population---then it is a system that is a deeply flawed, > > > > > > unworkable, > > > > > > anarchic, undemocratic, plutocratic,anachronism. Which is precisely > > > > > > what it is. This is not my opinion, it is a scientific, mathematical > > > > > > fact. Idle baseless opinion or ideological wishful thinking are a > > > > > > worthless hindrance to our understanding our relationship to the > > > > > > worlds socio-economic forces and the means of production. > > > > > > > > On Sep 18, 11:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > No Keith I have a brain and I know Bull Shit when I smell > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > > > Capitalism works, but selfish greed is a destroyer. > > > > > > > > > This post was about justifying selfish greed. > > > > > > > > > You are just too niave to realize it. > > > > > > > > > On Sep 18, 12:32 am, KeithInTampa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > > > > > You just demonstrated, that you are a socialist elitst......You > > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > > fell for, and/or actualy subscribe to the old socialists' trick, > > > > > > > > playing the "class warfare card". > > > > > > > > > > For two hundred years, there was a concept in this Nation, the > > > > > > > > proverbial "American Dream", which all Americans used to adhere > > > > > > > > to, > > > > > > > > and still some productive Americans still cling to; that wealth, > > > > > > > > prosperity, and a life better than what their parents > > > > > > > > maintaioned, was > > > > > > > > within their grasp. �The Democrat Party, which has been > > > > > > > > infiltrated by > > > > > > > > socialists and communists, have for years attempted to instill > > > > > > > > in our > > > > > > > > people that government is the answer and only solution for the > > > > > > > > working > > > > > > > > class. �The Democrat Party detests capitalism. �That nothing > > > > > > > > can in > > > > > > > > fact happen without government's oversight and stewardship. �The > > > > > > > > Democrat Party has worked hard to force a sense of class > > > > > > > > warfare. > > > > > > > > > > You just demonstrated it here in this thread, and another > > > > > > > > thread that > > > > > > > > you posted today captioned, �"The Cascade Effect, the collapse > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > US economy. How did it happen, and how do you stop it." > > > > > > > > > > If you don't believe me, go �back and re-read your messages. > > > > > > > > �You Sir, > > > > > > > > are espousing a socialist message. > > > > > > > > > > Respectfully, > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 18, 12:08 am, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000056.html > > > > > > > > > > > That capitalism generates wealth is beyond debate. This > > > > > > > > > capitalist > > > > > > > > > reactor of ours easily invents more, learns more, and > > > > > > > > > produces more > > > > > > > > > benefits in a year than mankind did under a millennia of rule > > > > > > > > > by Kings > > > > > > > > > and Barons and Caliphs and Emperors. It s just amazing what > > > > > > > > > people can > > > > > > > > > do when you just get the hell out of their way. > > > > > > > > > > > As an economic system for increasing prosperity, you just can > > > > > > > > > t beat > > > > > > > > > it. And those who despise capitalism can t argue with this > > > > > > > > > they just > > > > > > > > > can t. What they can do, perpetually and loudly, is talk > > > > > > > > > about how > > > > > > > > > unfair Capitalism is. Because it allows the hard-working and > > > > > > > > > ambitious > > > > > > > > > to keep the rewards of their hard work and ambition, > > > > > > > > > Capitalism does > > > > > > > > > indeed produce some pretty uneven results. > > > > > > > > > > > But does uneven mean unfair? Depends on how you measure fair. > > > > > > > > > > > Now far be it for me to split linguistic hairs and argue over > > > > > > > > > what the > > > > > > > > > definition of is is. But if we re going to get to the heart > > > > > > > > > of this > > > > > > > > > unfair business, we have to ask ourselves, unfair to whom? > > > > > > > > > Because if > > > > > > > > > we are to talk intelligently about this, we re going to have > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > understand something right out of the gate: life is unfair. > > > > > > > > > If life > > > > > > > > > were fair, we d all be the same same intelligence, same > > > > > > > > > drive, same > > > > > > > > > capabilities. But we re not. It is a hallmark of our species > > > > > > > > > that we > > > > > > > > > vary wildly in these and many other categories. That s what > > > > > > > > > makes us > > > > > > > > > so diverse, and we sure want to celebrate that, don t we? > > > > > > > > > > > So, when we talk about making things fair, making them equal, > > > > > > > > > we find > > > > > > > > > ourselves in the same impossible conundrum as we do when we > > > > > > > > > discuss > > > > > > > > > The Irresistible Force meeting The Immovable Object. > > > > > > > > > > > Cool! Which would win? > > > > > > > > > > > Neither. It s an oxymoron. The definition of Irresistible > > > > > > > > > Force means > > > > > > > > > that there cannot be an Immovable Object, and vice versa. You > > > > > > > > > have to > > > > > > > > > pick one or the other. They are mutually exclusive. > > > > > > > > > > > Likewise, when we try to measure fair and equal, we have to > > > > > > > > > face the > > > > > > > > > hard reality that people are different. So, do we want to > > > > > > > > > measure an > > > > > > > > > equal front end: equality of opportunity or an equal back end: > > > > > > > > > equality of results? Can t have both. > > > > > > > > > > > Here s why: > > > > > > > > > > > When the Declaration of Independence thundered that All Men > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > Created Equal, it meant equal in those essential elements: > > > > > > > > > equal under > > > > > > > > > the law. Equal in terms of basic human rights. Equal in > > > > > > > > > dignity. Equal > > > > > > > > > in the sense that if someone with a lot of money thinks they > > > > > > > > > can cut > > > > > > > > > in front of me at an ATM line just because they re rich, then > > > > > > > > > they can > > > > > > > > > just kiss my Royal Irish Ass! that kind of equal. > > > > > > > > > > > But to believe that all people are equally capable is to well > > > > > > > > > not be > > > > > > > > > paying attention, as a quick game of one-on-one half-court > > > > > > > > > between > > > > > > > > > Michael Jordan and Michael Moore will quickly reveal. (note > > > > > > > > > to Don > > > > > > > > > King: There are millions, and I mean millions to be made off > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > idea. Call me.) > > > > > > > > > > > There will always be people smarter than you, and people more > > > > > > > > > stupid; > > > > > > > > > people more and less motivated, ruthless, connected, > > > > > > > > > ambitious, > > > > > > > > > frugal, hardworking than you are. Nothing can change that. > > > > > > > > > Nothing > > > > > > > > > should change that because there lies the Gulag. People are > > > > > > > > > different. Leave them alone. Encourage the downhearted, by > > > > > > > > > all means. > > > > > > > > > Help those in need when they ask for help. But otherwise mind > > > > > > > > > your own > > > > > > > > > business, bub. > > > > > > > > > > > Society is as fair as it can get when all people have equal > > > > > > > > > opportunity to make what they will of themselves. We are not > > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > yet. We are close. We are much, much closer than many would > > > > > > > > > have us > > > > > > > > > believe. > > > > > > > > > > > But people are different. They will always be different. They > > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > succeed and fail differently. There s no two ways around it. > > > > > > > > > > > Like so many flawed ideas beloved by the far left, equality > > > > > > > > > seems like > > > > > > > > > a noble enough goal. Until you think about it. People have > > > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > > > capabilities. So do you want equality of opportunity as I do > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > people can make of themselves what they will? Or do you want > > > > > > > > > equality > > > > > > > > > of results, where society steps in to make sure that everyone > > > > > > > > > comes > > > > > > > > > out the same? > > > > > > > > > > > If society had a magical way of raising the bottom up, of > > > > > > > > > speeding up, > > > > > > > > > buffing up, and tidying up Michael Moore, thereby giving him > > > > > > > > > the means > > > > > > > > > to beat Michael Jordan in our (sadly) mythical game of > > > > > > > > > half-court, > > > > > > > > > well we d all be the winners and life would be just dandy. > > > > > > > > > But, > > > > ... > > > > read more �- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle Blessed are the bewildered for they don't know the difference.... Me --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
