And if that were the case, which it is not, how does that address the financing of public services into the future? Who cares who is poorer, poor is poor. The issue is do you advocate a redistribution of wealth to pre 1980 levels or do you want a revolution. It's a simple choice. If you impoverish the people long enough and send their kids to die in a war in which they don't believe in, they will revolt.
On Oct 6, 10:04 am, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And yet... > > The Poor in our Country Live in standards that the AVERAGE European > does. > > Imagine that. > > Your ignorance notwithstanding. > > On Oct 5, 3:35 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The fact that the poor and elderly constitute the biggest budgetary > > expense is of no relevance when considering their standard of living. > > The pensions they receive are not equivalent to poverty line wages, > > they are an insult. > > > There is a problem in that Medicaid, medicare and social welfare are > > increasing at a rate that funds will be exhausted by about 2040. The > > problem isn't the programs it is the lack of taxation contributions > > from the wealthy. The top tax rate for business used to be 70%, now it > > is the 35% and with the tax breaks passed by the bush administration, > > 66% of business pay little or no tax at all. > > > Because of these policies you have the situation where the top 10% of > > society has 90% of all wealth and the poorest 40% has 0.2% and the top > > 1% owes more than the bottom 90% > > > The poor are not the problem, the distribution of the wealth is the > > problem. The high tax rates of big business are what underpinned the > > American Dream. If a business is collecting the combined surplus value > > of thousands of workers it has to plough a considerable amount back > > into society in the form of taxes to ensure social harmony. Extremes > > of wealth polarization are incompatible with democratic norms.I know > > you oppose such measures but this is the result. Either wealth > > distribution is undertaken or you will have revolution on your hands. > > Of course I am banking on the latter. > > > On Oct 6, 8:29 am, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Funny, isn't it? > > > > You rail on about how bad the Poor have it, and how much Debt we > > > have... > > > > Yet the Single biggest expenditure in our Budget is to the Poor and > > > Elderly. > > > > Imagine that, we take care of our Poor and Elderly first and foremost. > > > > No wonder you can't get them to Revolt. > > > > On Oct 5, 2:18 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Your debt is double what it was in 1929, and 5.5 million families were > > > > not about to loose their homes and you won the war, you are loosing > > > > this one, in-fact it has gone on longer than WWII and the population > > > > do not support it. The US is screwed big time. > > > > > On Oct 6, 8:04 am, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The point is, that the last time we were this indebted was during and > > > > > directly after a time of War... > > > > > > And we are currently at War. > > > > > > On Oct 5, 1:48 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > What's the point Gaar? It paints a very negative picture of US debt > > > > > > excluding war funding, and another 5.5 million home defaults to > > > > > > come. > > > > > > Instead of just throwing data about, read what your own financial > > > > > > experts are saying on Bloomberg's, they are convinced of a deep > > > > > > prolonged recession. > > > > > > > On Oct 6, 7:25 am, Gaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt > > > > > > > > On Oct 5, 12:06 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You should avoid paying taxes, as it the working class that > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > the wealthy, which you see very clearly in relation to the > > > > > > > > acquisition > > > > > > > > of public funds to bail out the parasites on Wall St. > > > > > > > > > The fact that you are having credit cards shoved down your > > > > > > > > throat in > > > > > > > > the middle of a credit crisis has its own logic based in the > > > > > > > > contradictions of capitalism which you will start to notice > > > > > > > > occur on > > > > > > > > all sorts of levels and you don't have to be an account to work > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > out. > > > > > > > > > No matter how bad the financial situation is, the banks must > > > > > > > > lend out > > > > > > > > money, that is how they make their profits. So the fact that > > > > > > > > they are > > > > > > > > in trouble makes it even more imperative to do more business to > > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > profits and generate liquidity. Of course with Americans in > > > > > > > > record > > > > > > > > debt and the proliferation of job loses and housing defaults, > > > > > > > > it is a > > > > > > > > practice that is bound to backfire, but they have no other > > > > > > > > choice. > > > > > > > > > Markets and resources are finite, yet capitalism requires the > > > > > > > > never > > > > > > > > ending expansion of capital, this is just not possible and this > > > > > > > > crisis > > > > > > > > is the result. > > > > > > > > > Out of interest in 1929 the US debt was 150% of GDP, now it is > > > > > > > > 300%. > > > > > > > > About 1,000,000 housing defaults have occurred so far, while > > > > > > > > another > > > > > > > > 5,000,000 are expected in the next 2 to 3 years. Puts things in > > > > > > > > perspective a bit doesn't it? > > > > > > > > > Regarding a Wall St police, the government and Big Business are > > > > > > > > intertwined to a degree when it is impossible to know where one > > > > > > > > ends > > > > > > > > and the other begins. Together they consciously rob the American > > > > > > > > worker blind. The average congressman is worth $3.9 million, > > > > > > > > the only > > > > > > > > new police force the US public will see is the Nazi brown > > > > > > > > shirts, > > > > > > > > which are in training as we speak in the guise of Northcom. > > > > > > > > > On Oct 6, 12:49 am, margareth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Do you think tha t the IRS will pay each of us for reporting > > > > > > > > > him? Fat > > > > > > > > > chance. I avoid taxes the way that rich people do. I make > > > > > > > > > income > > > > > > > > > disappear...and hopefully into good investments. I think > > > > > > > > > that all the > > > > > > > > > politicians have frauded many of the taxpayers. Through thist > > > > > > > > > past > > > > > > > > > week, I have had three calls from credit card companies > > > > > > > > > offering to > > > > > > > > > lend me money, so, unless you are an accountant, it is > > > > > > > > > difficult to > > > > > > > > > understand what has been happening. What really needs to > > > > > > > > > happen now, > > > > > > > > > is that there would be a police force on Wall street. > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 4, 10:17 pm, Frank <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Let's see how stupid this post is. 66% of business pays > > > > > > > > > > little or no > > > > > > > > > > tax according to the US government. > > > > > > > > > > > The richest 1% of Americans own more wealth than the bottom > > > > > > > > > > 90% > > > > > > > > > > > The poorest 40% own just 0.2% of total wealth. > > > > > > > > > > > Any idiot can see, and granted Mark is not just any > > > > > > > > > > ordinary idiot, > > > > > > > > > > that the problem within the economy is that the rich have > > > > > > > > > > hoarded > > > > > > > > > > everything for themselves while blaming the most > > > > > > > > > > impovershed layers > > > > > > > > > > for the economic crisis, while they live in obscene wealth. > > > > > > > > > > This > > > > > > > > > > commonly know as blaming the victim. > > > > > > > > > > > The only defense of such actions can come from the most > > > > > > > > > > ignorant > > > > > > > > > > sections of conservative politics, who defend the "American > > > > > > > > > > Nightmare", built on death and barbarism > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 5, 5:21 am, mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk radio icon Rush Limbaugh is warning Americans about > > > > > > > > > > > the 30 > > > > > > > > > > > percent of the people in the country who pay no federal > > > > > > > > > > > income taxes, > > > > > > > > > > > because they will forever be in favor of higher taxes on > > > > > > > > > > > everyone > > > > > > > > > > > else. > > > > > > > > > > > > Limbaugh quoted extensively on his program today from an > > > > > > > > > > > op-ed by Brad > > > > > > > > > > > O'Leary, author of "The Audacity of Deceit: Barack > > > > > > > > > > > Obama's War on > > > > > > > > > > > American Values." > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Audacity of Deceit", released by WND Books, has hit > > > > > > > > > > > the nation's > > > > > > > > > > > largest bookstores in a head-to-head clash with Obama's > > > > > > > > > > > release of his > > > > > > > > > > > campaign book, "Change We Can Believe In." > > > > > > > > > > > > Eric M. Jackson, president of WND books, says it will > > > > > > > > > > > "shed new light > > > > > > > > > > > on a public figure who's enjoyed a meteoric rise with > > > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > > > scrutiny." > > > > > > > > > > > > "The greatest find, the greatest discovery in the > > > > > > > > > > > political world is a > > > > > > > > > > > new voting bloc, and his book and his research here is > > > > > > > > > > > targeted at > > > > > > > > > > > proving that Obama's big voting bloc is the 30 > > > > > > > > > > > percent-plus of > > > > > > > > > > > Americans who pay no income taxes," Limbaugh said. "These > > > > > > > > > > > people get > > > > > > > > > > > polled a lot, they are played to constantly, and they are > > > > > > > > > > > all for ever > > > > > > > > > > > higher taxes on everybody else 'cause it means more for > > > > > > > > > > > them, in their > > > > > > > > > > > own version of 'trickle down.'" > > > > > > > > > > > > Citing the article's title, "Forgotten Foot Soldiers In > > > > > > > > > > > War On > > > > > > > > > > > Success," Limbaugh said, "That's exactly what the > > > > > > > > > > > Democrats are > > > > > > > > > > > waging." > > > > > > > > > > > > Limbaugh quoted from O'Leary: "When writing my latest > > > > > > > > > > > book, 'The > > > > > > > > > > > Audacity of Deceit: Barack Obama's War on American > > > > > > > > > > > Values,' I > > > > > > > > > > > discovered a relatively unknown constituency: the 30 > > > > > > > > > > > percent of > > > > > > > > > > > American voters who do not pay federal income taxes. > > > > > > > > > > > These Americans > > > > > > > > > > > are exempt from paying income taxes either because their > > > > > > > > > > > income level > > > > > > > > > > > is below the threshold that would require them to pay, or > > > > > > > > > > > their total > > > > > > > > > > > deductions leave them with no income-tax liability." > > > > > > > > > > > > O'Leary continued, "So I set out to determine exactly who > > > > > > > > > > > these people > > > > > > > > > > > are and what makes them tick. In conjunction with Zogby > > > > > > > > > > > America, I > > > > > > > > > > > conducted a series of carefully orchestrated polls. > > > > > > > > > > > > First, I found that 60 percent of likely voters among > > > > > > > > > > > non-taxpaying > > > > > > > > > > > Americans favor Obama for president, whereas only 31 > > > > > > > > > > > percent > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
