This whole thread was the same identical subject matter that we discuss today, four years later. This was my point last night:
On Friday, October 29, 2010 6:15:25 PM UTC-4, KeithInTampa wrote: > > "We The People, Of the United States Of America" is pretty self > explanatory..... > > > > > On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Jonathan Ashley < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> While the word "citizen" appears quite often in the Constitution for >> the United States >> , it is never clearly defined. >> >> If a person chose to move here from France in 1791, why would he not >> have been part of "We the People"? >> >> >> On 10/29/2010 10:53 AM, Keith In Tampa wrote: >> >> That is one convoluted, and I might add, WRONG interpretation >> Michael. "The People" mean the Citizens of the United States. Not >> illegals, not, "The People of France", etc., etc., etc....Numerous case law >> citations on this very premise, again, I'll come back to it maybe tonight. >> >> Keith >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 1:41 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Article III deals with the JUDICIARY. >>> >>> There you go again with that silliness about 'illegals'. >>> Citizens relate (re: US Constitution) SPECIFICALLY as denoted. >>> >>> Items like -- for example -- Amendment IV (for simplicity) >>> >>> The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, >>> papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, >>> shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon >>> probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly >>> describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to >>> be seized. >>> >>> restrict the GOVERNMENT from action against PEOPLE -- regardless of >>> whether they are Citizens, Visitors, have the Government's >>> unconstitutional >>> permission, etc. It plainly LIMITS the Feds from doing as stated. >>> >>> Naturalization (or naturalisation), of course, is the acquisition of >>> citizenship and nationality by somebody who was not a citizen or >>> national of that country when he or she was born. >>> Naturalization has NOTHING to do with entering/exiting. >>> >>> There was no claim that Citizens were something else. >>> >>> Regard$, >>> --MJ >>> >>> I was about to say that I'd hate to live in a country >>> where the law could mean whatever its rulers said >>> it meant, when it occurred to me that I already do. >>> -- Joseph Sobran >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 01:28 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote: >>> >>> Art. III referenced the Constitution and treaties, but was changed by >>> the XI amendment. Citizens do not refer to illegals that roam onto U.S. >>> soil and do not become naturalized. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "MJ" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 1:14:13 PM >>> Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans >>> >>> >>> This is becoming silly. Have you actually READ the Constitution? >>> >>> Occurrences of 'Citizen' >>> >>> In Article III (describing JURISDICTION for the supreme Court): >>> >>> between a State and Citizens of another State; -- between Citizens >>> of different States; -- between Citizens of the same State claiming >>> Lands >>> under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens >>> thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects. >>> >>> In Article IV (ensuring reciprocity between States): >>> >>> The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges >>> and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. >>> >>> Amendment XI (more jurisdiction): >>> >>> The Judicial power of the United States shall not be construed to >>> extend to >>> any suit in law or equity, commenced or prosecuted against one of the >>> United >>> States by Citizens of another State, or by Citizens or Subjects of any >>> Foreign State. >>> >>> Dubiously Ratified Amendment XIV (aiding Lincoln's illusion): >>> >>> All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and >>> subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States >>> and >>> of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any >>> law >>> which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the >>> United >>> States; >>> >>> Amendment XV (preventing voting disqualification by group): >>> >>> The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be >>> denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of >>> race, color, or previous condition of servitude. >>> >>> Amendment XIX (preventing voting disqualification by group)" >>> >>> The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied >>> or >>> abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. >>> >>> Amendment XIV (preventing voting disqualification by group): >>> >>> The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any >>> primary or other election for President or Vice President, for >>> electors for >>> President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in >>> Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any >>> State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. >>> >>> Amendment XXVI (preventing voting disqualification by group): >>> >>> The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen >>> years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the >>> United States or by any State on account of age. >>> >>> >>> The Constitution, of course, CREATED and LIMITS the Government it >>> created. >>> >>> >>> STILL do not know what the Bible has to do with anything. >>> >>> Regard$, >>> --MJ >>> >>> The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal >>> government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State >>> governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised >>> principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign >>> commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be >>> connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the >>> objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, >>> liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, >>> improvement, and prosperity of the State. -- James Madison, Federalist >>> Papers >>> >>> >>> >>> At 12:53 PM 10/29/2010, you wrote: >>> Look at Romans 1:26-27. Also the Constitution and the amendments >>> refer to citizens. Citizens are all persons born or naturalized in the >>> U.S. and subject to the jurisdiction therein. Clearly it does not apply to >>> illegals. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "MJ" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:01:43 PM >>> Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans >>> >>> >>> THIS does not answer the request. >>> Someone will need to explain this silliness about 'legal' and 'illegal' >>> immigrants. The US Constitution provides no power whatsoever for the Feds >>> to extend or withhold permission for entry (or exit) into any of the >>> Sovereign States. Besides, 'migration' is a natural right. >>> Additionally, rights are inherent in Man's being -- not permissions as >>> you imply. >>> Not certain WHAT the Bible may have to do with anything. >>> >>> As an aside, do you have any problem/difficulty with the THEFT and >>> SLAVERY promoted by both the Ds and Rs? >>> >>> Regard$, >>> --MJ >>> >>> "Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into >>> the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of >>> moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal >>> liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for >>> his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson >>> >>> >>> At 11:42 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote: What rights do immigrants have >>> unless they are legal? In reference to the Bible have you read the verses >>> on homosexuality? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "MJ" <[email protected]> To: >>> [email protected] Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 11:24:30 >>> AM Subject: Re: Tea party antics could end up burning Republicans >>> >>> Can you POINT me to a 'platform' or similar that suggests such? Thanks >>> in advance. >>> Regard$, --MJ >>> "Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in his error. " >>> -- Marcus Tullius Cicero >>> >>> >>> At 09:18 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote: >But it seems obvious that the >>> biggest reason to vote Democrat is to >take one good look at the >>> crazies in the Grand Opressive Tea Party and >what they will do to >>> oppresss LGBT people, as well as a whole slew of >demographic minority >>> groups, including immigrants, Latinos, >African-Americans and women who >>> have been raped or victims of incest. >If you don't vote for the >>> Democrats, you are opening the door for >bigoted hateful theocrats like >>> the Fred Phelps Wesboro "Church" who >totally ignore Jesus' actual >>> message of love, acceptance and inclusion >and fail to know what their >>> Bible really says. >The Republican Agenda is anti-American. Their >>> number one priority is >to obstruct and make The President of The >>> United States fail. Welcome >to the Recorporate Party of Greed. > >>> -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >> >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere. >> Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts. >> http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html >> >> >> -- >> *Your remedy is in the courts - learn civil litigation with >> Jurisdictionary® <http://www.jurisdictionary.com/?refercode=CG0004>* >> >> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal >> Government* >> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure. Government is only >> as strong as those who allow themselves to be governed are weak. "The 'art' >> of politics is diverting attention from what's really happening. What >> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior public >> relations."- Marc Stevens "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it >> expects something that cannot be."- Thomas Jefferson* >> >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> > > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. 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