I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are Israelis and NOT Americans! --- on this we agree. give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for israel.
Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to defend and support Israel. Obviously you do! -- not as long as they go home without extorted US weapons and tax dollars. On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:38:41 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: > > I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these > individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have > no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are > Israelis and NOT Americans! Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to > defend and support Israel. Obviously you do! > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:29 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> Americans join, die for the Israeli army over allegiance to Jewish >> homeland >> 1 / 6 >> In this June 2012 photo courtesy of Stuart Steinberg, Max Steinberg poses >> on a trip to Israel. Stuart Steinberg confirmed the death of his son Max >> Steinberg to The Associated Press on Sunday, July, 20, 2014. Steinberg, >> whose family lives in Southern California's San Fernando Valley, was a >> sharpshooter for the Golani Brigade in the Israel Defense Forces. (AP >> Photo/Courtesy of Stuart Steinberg) >> The Associated Press >> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/pennap/photos.html> >> Print >> <http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/print.html?entry=/2014/07/israel_idf_americans_in_idf_ga.html> >> >> [image: Ivey DeJesus | [email protected]] >> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/index.html> By Ivey DeJesus >> | [email protected] >> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/posts.html> >> Email the author | Follow on Twitter <http://twitter.com/iveydejesus> >> on July 31, 2014 at 1:51 PM, updated August 01, 2014 at 6:50 AM >> >> Traci Siegel grew up strongly identifying with her Jewish roots. The >> former Susquehanna Township resident attended Jewish schools, Jewish summer >> camps and took several family trips to Israel. >> >> "I loved it there," said Siegel, who was 14 the first time she traveled >> to Israel. >> >> Two years ago, after completing her undergraduate degree at the >> University of Maryland, Siegel moved to Israel, and before long, >> volunteered to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. >> >> "I saw my future here," she said during a phone interview this week from >> Jerusalem. "I identified with the culture and with the people, especially >> with my interest in politics." >> >> For Siegel, as with many of the young Americans who put their lives at >> risk to defend Israel, her commitment to serve was a natural extension of >> her affinity to the Jewish homeland. >> >> "Most people here serve in the military," said Siegel, 25. "It's so much >> a part of the culture and identity. I thought it was a good idea to serve >> to integrate myself better." >> [image: Traci Siegel, IDF]Harrisburg native Traci Siegel moved to Israel >> and joined the Israel Defense Forces. She said a desire to integrate into >> the country's culture and identity compelled her to join. She completed her >> service in April. Her parents live in Susquehanna Township.Courtesy of >> Traci Siegel >> >> The bloody conflict escalation between Israel and Hamas has shed light on >> the number of Americans serving in the IDF, and the weight of their >> sacrifice. Since the start of the fighting three weeks ago, at least two >> Americans have been killed: Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim >> Sean Carmeli, 22, of Texas. >> >> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >> families and friends on a personal level," said Aviva Miskin, of >> Harrisburg, whose two sons live in Israel, and as citizens must meet the >> country's compulsory army and reserve obligations. "It is their duty and >> responsibility to serve and defend their country against terrorist attacks." >> >> In the 23 days of fighting, approximately 1,300 Palestinians and 56 >> Israeli soldiers have been killed. International efforts to end the >> fighting have failed. Palestinian leaders - including Hamas and Islamic >> Jihad leaders - were expected in Cairo in the coming days to discuss a new >> truce proposal. >> >> On Thursday, The Times of Israel was reporting that ceasefire >> negotiations were at a dead end >> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceasefire-talks-at-dead-end-palestinian-official-says/> >> . >> >> In interviews with other media, IDF spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss reports >> that close to 1,000 Americans serve in the IDF. In total, the force has >> about 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops, or lone soldiers, foreign nationals >> who volunteer to serve in the IDF. Lone soldiers are different than the >> American citizens who have become Israeli citizens and serve in the IDF. >> >> "These are kids who have a strong sense of who they are and they >> understand history and feel that by doing this they are protecting >> democracy and Jews worldwide," said Philip Berry, Mid-Atlantic region >> executive director of Friends of the Israel Defense Forces >> <http://www.fidf.org/page.aspx?pid=194>, an organization that works to >> support lone soldiers and their families. "They have a strong sense of >> community and love for the U.S. and Israel." >> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >> families and friends on a personal level." - Aviva Miskin >> >> Israel grants citizenship to all Jews. Foreign nationals, as with >> Israeli-born citizens, who meet the requirements for admission into the >> military >> <http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/army/serving-in-the-israeli-army.html>, >> must serve out their compulsory service. The mandatory service applies to >> men age 18-25 and women age 17-20. >> >> His family tree bearing the names of relatives who perished in the >> Holocaust, Williamsport attorney Clifford Rieders said the decision by his >> daughter Kaila to move to Israel and join the army did not surprise him. >> >> "We are very proud of her," Rieders said. Kaila, who is 23, reports for >> basic training on Aug. 24. >> >> The weight of the sacrifice - particularly in the wake of the deaths of >> the two American soldiers - weigh on young Americans in Israel. >> >> "I think all deaths are sad but there is something really special about >> someone who came here and left their home to do something they really >> wanted to do and give his life for it," Siegel said. "It's just sad. These >> people a made choice and knew what they were doing. We are just very >> grateful for them." >> >> To be sure, such commitment also weighs heavily on the families in the >> U.S. watching the events in Israel and Gaza unfold. >> >> "It's very a frightening situation," said Rabbi Eric Cytryn of Beth El >> Temple in Harrisburg, whose daughter, Sarah, her husband and nine-month son >> live in Israel. Gabi Mitchell, Cytryn's son-in-law, serves in the IDF. >> >> "No one should have to live under the threat of having missiles shot at >> you by your neighbors. We are scared for our children on that level but we >> are hopeful that this will all stop as soon as possible." >> >> Cytryn was in Jerusalem a few weeks ago when the first wave of rockets >> aimed at Israel were destroyed by the country's Iron Dome defense system. >> >> For now, he takes comfort in the fact that they will return to the states >> in a few weeks, as his son-in-law prepares to enter into a doctorate >> program at Virginia Tech. >> >> "It makes us feel happy," Cytryn said. "They will be two-and-a-half hours >> away. There's probably little danger that Maryland and North Carolina will >> want to shoot missiles at them." >> >> Eva Siegel, Traci's mother, also finds a measure of comfort knowing her >> daughter lives in Jerusalem, and not closer to Gaza. But in a country the >> size of New Jersey, distances are relative. A few weeks ago, she was on the >> phone with her daughter when the sirens went off, warning Israeli citizens >> of incoming rockets. >> >> "Most of the time I know she's safe," Eva Siegel said. "I know Israel is >> doing whatever it can to protect its citizens. It's a tough situation, >> though, knowing you child is in country at war." >> >> Siegel said that while it's a heroic sacrifice for Americans to live a >> safe country and volunteer to serve in the IDF, she mourns the lives of all >> who have been killed in the fighting. >> >> Although she had reservations when Traci first told her of her decision >> to move to Israel, Eva Siegel says she is nothing but proud of her >> daughter's decision. >> >> "The path she chose, to move to Israel all alone, is very challenging >> under the best of circumstances," she said. "It is hard enough for young >> college graduates to become independent here. She is navigating life in a >> foreign country....While we miss her, we are proud and supportive of the >> choices she has made." >> >> Siegel, who completed her service with the Israeli Air Force in April, >> will attend Tel Aviv University in the fall where she will start a Masters >> program in public policy. >> >> Although she is fiercely loyal and supportive of Israel, Traci Siegel >> would prefer to see Israel resolve the conflict in a diplomatic way, rather >> than wage a war. >> >> "I moved here and served in the army," she said. "All I want to do is >> serve this country. I just think I have a different vision of how things >> could work." >> --- >> 1,000 Americans Are Serving in the Israeli Army and They Aren’t Alone >> The Jewish state is one of four that let U.S. citizens in their >> militaries. >> >> The death of two Americans serving in Israel’s military in this weekend’s >> fighting with Hamas in Gaza is not the first time Americans have died while >> serving in foreign militaries. >> >> Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, of Texas, >> were serving in the Israeli army when they died along with 11 other Israeli >> soldiers over the weekend. At least 60 Palestinians were also killed. >> >> “All of them have joint citizenship,” Maya Kadosh, Israel’s Houston-based >> deputy consul to the Southwest United States, told *The New York Times >> <http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/2-americans-among-israeli-soldiers-killed-in-gaza.html>*. >> >> “They are very proud. They are not less American when they serve in the >> army. They are more American. They feel they protect the values of the >> place they came from, and they also protect the values of the state of >> Israel.” >> >> Steinberg and Carmeli were not alone in Israel. Today, the Jewish state >> has one of the largest number of Americans serving in its military, with >> roughly 1,000 Americans who did not grow up there serving, said Israeli >> Defense Force (IDF) spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss. In total, it has about >> 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops. >> >> While Israel is a bit of a special case—foreign-born Jews often serve in >> the Israeli military thanks to that country’s right of return—three other >> militaries either actively recruit Americans or are open to them. Australia >> and New Zealand both have programs to fill spots in their militaries by >> active-duty or veteran service members, and the French Foreign Legion is >> legendary for taking almost anyone who shows up at their recruitment >> offices outside Paris. (Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl reportedly tried to join the >> Legion >> <http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/13-things-you-need-to-know-about-bowe-bergdahl-20140602> >> >> before enlisting in the U.S. Army.) >> >> But estimating the number of Americans serving in foreign militaries is >> fiendishly difficult, since it includes both U.S. citizens serving in the >> aforementioned militaries and dual-citizens serving in the militaries of >> the other countries. A State Department official said the department >> doesn’t track who is serving in foreign armies. >> >> Dual citizenship can sometimes complicate things for traveling Americans, >> though. There have been several instances of 18-year-old men vacationing in >> ye olde country and then finding out they’re responsible for national >> service there. In 2004, a Korean-American man, born in the United States, >> was teaching English outside Seoul when he was drafted into the South >> Korean army for two years >> <http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/The-accidental-citizen-soldier-1141729.php> >> >> after he failed to fill out his paperwork renouncing his Korean citizenship >> before his 18th birthday. He was stopped while trying to return to the U.S. >> and conscripted. >> >> While forced conscription of Americans is rare, the practice of >> volunteering has a storied history. Before the United States joined the >> Allies in WWI, a number of Americans joined the Canadian army to get in on >> the action. During the 1930s, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish >> Civil War was made up exclusively of Americans fighting against the >> fascists. By the time of Pearl Harbor, more than 6,000 U.S. citizens were >> serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force and 10,000 in the Canadian Army, >> according to Col. Stanley W. Dzuiban, author of *Military Relations >> Between the United States and Canada, 1939-1945*. >> >> For the most part, this is all legal. Prior to 1967, Americans risked >> losing their citizenship if they joined a foreign military or even voted in >> a foreign election. That year, the Supreme Court decision in *Afroyim v. >> Rusk* established that citizenship is a constitutional right and can’t >> be stripped involuntarily. So, you’re free to join up with whatever >> military that will take you, as long as you don’t engage in active >> hostilities against the U.S. What is illegal is recruiting within the U.S. >> So, traveling to Israel to join is OK, but the IDF won’t be setting up next >> to the U.S. Army recruiting station in Times Square any time soon. >> >> Of course, non-state actors, such as al Qaeda, ISIS, the FSA, Libyan >> rebels, etc. accept Americans, but that’s frowned upon by the State >> Department. >> >> One peril while serving in a foreign military: the possibility of >> committing war crimes. Chuckie Taylor, son of Liberian warlord Charles >> Taylor, was an American citizen who was convicted in 2008 in Florida for >> torture in the Liberian civil war. He was the first American convicted on >> U.S. soil for crimes against humanity in another country. >> >> And let’s not even get into the case of John Walker Lindh, the “American >> Taliban,” currently serving time after being captured in Afghanistan in >> 2001. His family argued in his trial that he only joined a foreign >> military, the Taliban, and didn’t intend to fight the U.S., but that didn’t >> fly. >> The U.S. military likewise is open to non-citizens >> <http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-through-military-service-fact-sheet>, >> >> with all active-duty personnel able to file for citizenship immediately and >> receive expedited treatment from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration >> Services. From September 2002 to May 2013, almost 90,000 members of the >> Armed Forces gained citizenship. >> >> >> >> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:38:42 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>> >>> http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40- >>> american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/ >>> >>> Dem Rep: 40 American ISIL Fighters Have Already Returned to the United >>> States >>> These individuals under surveillance, 'being tracked' by the FBI >>> SHARE >>> <http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>> TWEET >>> <http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreebeacon.com%2Fnational-security%2Fdem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states%2F&text=Dem%20Rep:%2040%20American%20ISIL%20Fighters%20Have%20Already%20Returned%20to%20the%20United%20States> >>> EMAIL >>> [image: AP] >>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>> >>> AP >>> >>> >>> BY: Adam Kredo <http://freebeacon.com/author/adam-kredo/> >>> September 19, 2014 9:35 am >>> >>> Rep. Tim Bishop (D., N.Y.) warned during a recent speech that up to 40 >>> radicalized U.S. citizens who have fought alongside the Islamic State of >>> Iraq and Levant (ISIL or ISIS) have already returned to the United States, >>> where they could pose a terrorist threat. >>> >>> Bishop claims that of the 100 or so Americans who have traveled to the >>> Middle East to join ISIL’s ranks, some 40 have returned and are currently >>> being surveilled by the FBI, according to his remarks, which were filmed >>> and uploaded >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gPDpYSMyw&list=UUqNfXxfww4ATBZsbv64nwRg> >>> to >>> YouTube last week. >>> >>> “One of the concerns is the number of U.S. citizens who have left our >>> country to go join up with ISIS,” Bishop said during the speech. “It is >>> believed there have been some number up to 100 that have done that.” >>> >>> “It is also believed that some 40 of those who left this country to join >>> up with ISIS have now returned to our country,” Bishop said, eliciting >>> shocked responses from some in the crowd. >>> >>> These 40 individuals, Bishop said, “are under FBI attention and >>> surveillance. So they are known and being tracked by the FBI.” >>> >>> Lawmakers have warned that radicalized ISIL fighters could clandestinely >>> enter the United States through the porous southern border. >>> >>> U.S. officials with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and other >>> security agencies have said that while the southern border poses a risk, >>> they are more concerned about lone wolf attacks in which an isolated >>> radicalized individual with sympathy to ISIL carries out a solo terror >>> attack. >>> >>> Bishop said that while ISIL poses and extreme threat, it is not yet >>> capable of attacking the United States, though that could change as the >>> group grows in strength and resources. >>> >>> “It is a very, very complex and very, very dangerous threat and I think >>> the plan that the president outlined the other night [in his national >>> speech] is a good plan,” Bishop maintained. >>> >>> President Obama “is correct to recognize the threat, and it clearly is a >>> threat to the stability of the Middle East, a region that is already >>> remarkably unstable,” Bishop said. >>> >>> “It is not yet a threat to the homeland, but there is a concern that it >>> could metastasize in such a way that it could become a threat to the >>> homeland,” Bishop said, echoing concerns expressed by lawmakers on both >>> sides of the isle. >>> >>> “But at the present time, the intelligence is ISIS does not present a >>> threat to the homeland, although that is not something that will remain >>> static going out into the future,” Bishop said, describing the regional >>> upheaval as “more of a political conflict in the Arab world then a >>> sectarian conflict” between Muslims. >>> >>> DHS has said that while there is no evidence of a direct threat by ISIL >>> to the United States, it is aware that the group’s affiliates have been >>> discussing the possibility of crossing the southern border. >>> >>> “There have been Twitter, social media exchanges among ISIL adherents >>> across the globe speaking about that as a possibility,” Francis Taylor, >>> under secretary for intelligence and analysis at DHS, told senators during >>> a recent hearing >>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-confirms-isil-planning-infiltration-of-u-s-southern-border/> >>> . >>> >>> Other U.S. officials also have discussed the possibility of an ISIL >>> adherent carrying out an attack on the United States. >>> >>> “We remain mindful of the possibility that an ISIL-sympathizer—perhaps >>> motivated by online propaganda—could conduct a limited, self-directed >>> attack here at home with no warning,” Matthew Olsen, director of the U.S. >>> National Counterterrorism Center, said in a speech earlier this month. >>> >>> “We have seen ISIL use a range of media to tout its military >>> capabilities, executions of captured soldiers, and consecutive battlefield >>> victories,” Olsen said. “More recently, the group’s supporters have >>> sustained this momentum on social media by encouraging attacks in the U.S. >>> and against U.S. interests in retaliation for our airstrikes. ISIL has used >>> this propaganda campaign to draw foreign fighters to the group, including >>> many from Western >>> >>> http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/gop-rep-at- >>> least-ten-isis-fighters-have-been-caught-coming-across-the- >>> mexican-border/ >>> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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