I have no problem with this Plain Ol!  My only hesitation, is that these 
individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have 
no objections to them visiting or even living in America,  they are 
Israelis and NOT Americans!
---
on this we agree.
give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for 
israel.

  Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to defend and support Israel.  
Obviously you do!
--
not as long as they go home without extorted US weapons and tax dollars.

On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:38:41 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote:
>
> I have no problem with this Plain Ol!  My only hesitation, is that these 
> individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have 
> no objections to them visiting or even living in America,  they are 
> Israelis and NOT Americans!  Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to 
> defend and support Israel.  Obviously you do!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:29 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] 
> <javascript:>> wrote:
>
>> Americans join, die for the Israeli army over allegiance to Jewish 
>> homeland 
>>  1 / 6
>> In this June 2012 photo courtesy of Stuart Steinberg, Max Steinberg poses 
>> on a trip to Israel. Stuart Steinberg confirmed the death of his son Max 
>> Steinberg to The Associated Press on Sunday, July, 20, 2014. Steinberg, 
>> whose family lives in Southern California's San Fernando Valley, was a 
>> sharpshooter for the Golani Brigade in the Israel Defense Forces. (AP 
>> Photo/Courtesy of Stuart Steinberg)
>> The Associated Press 
>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/pennap/photos.html>
>>   Print 
>> <http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/print.html?entry=/2014/07/israel_idf_americans_in_idf_ga.html>
>>  
>>  [image: Ivey DeJesus | [email protected]] 
>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/index.html> By Ivey DeJesus 
>> | [email protected] 
>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/posts.html> 
>> Email the author | Follow on Twitter <http://twitter.com/iveydejesus> 
>> on July 31, 2014 at 1:51 PM, updated August 01, 2014 at 6:50 AM
>>
>> Traci Siegel grew up strongly identifying with her Jewish roots. The 
>> former Susquehanna Township resident attended Jewish schools, Jewish summer 
>> camps and took several family trips to Israel.
>>
>> "I loved it there," said Siegel, who was 14 the first time she traveled 
>> to Israel.
>>
>> Two years ago, after completing her undergraduate degree at the 
>> University of Maryland, Siegel moved to Israel, and before long, 
>> volunteered to serve in the Israel Defense Forces.
>>
>> "I saw my future here," she said during a phone interview this week from 
>> Jerusalem. "I identified with the culture and with the people, especially 
>> with my interest in politics."
>>
>> For Siegel, as with many of the young Americans who put their lives at 
>> risk to defend Israel, her commitment to serve was a natural extension of 
>> her affinity to the Jewish homeland.
>>
>> "Most people here serve in the military," said Siegel, 25. "It's so much 
>> a part of the culture and identity. I  thought it was a good idea to serve 
>> to integrate myself better."
>> [image: Traci Siegel, IDF]Harrisburg native Traci Siegel moved to Israel 
>> and joined the Israel Defense Forces. She said a desire to integrate into 
>> the country's culture and identity compelled her to join. She completed her 
>> service in April. Her parents live in Susquehanna Township.Courtesy of 
>> Traci Siegel 
>>
>> The bloody conflict escalation between Israel and Hamas has shed light on 
>> the number of Americans serving in the IDF, and the weight of their 
>> sacrifice. Since the start of the fighting three weeks ago, at least two 
>> Americans have been killed: Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim 
>> Sean Carmeli, 22, of Texas.
>>
>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own 
>> families and friends on a personal level," said Aviva Miskin, of 
>> Harrisburg, whose two sons live in Israel, and as citizens must meet the 
>> country's compulsory army and reserve obligations. "It is their duty and 
>> responsibility to serve and defend their country against terrorist attacks."
>>
>> In the 23 days of fighting, approximately 1,300 Palestinians and 56 
>> Israeli soldiers have been killed. International efforts to end the 
>> fighting have failed. Palestinian leaders - including Hamas and Islamic 
>> Jihad leaders - were expected in Cairo in the coming days to discuss a new 
>> truce proposal. 
>>
>> On Thursday, The Times of Israel was reporting that ceasefire 
>> negotiations were at a dead end 
>> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceasefire-talks-at-dead-end-palestinian-official-says/>
>> . 
>>
>> In interviews with other media, IDF spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss reports 
>> that close to 1,000 Americans serve in the IDF. In total, the force has 
>> about 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops, or lone soldiers, foreign nationals 
>> who volunteer to serve in the IDF. Lone soldiers are different than the 
>> American citizens who have become Israeli citizens and serve in the IDF.
>>
>> "These are kids who have a strong sense of who they are and they 
>> understand history and feel that by doing this they are protecting 
>> democracy and Jews worldwide," said Philip Berry, Mid-Atlantic region 
>> executive director of Friends of the Israel Defense Forces 
>> <http://www.fidf.org/page.aspx?pid=194>, an organization that works to 
>> support lone soldiers and their families. "They have a strong sense of 
>> community and love for the U.S. and Israel."
>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own 
>> families and friends on a personal level." - Aviva Miskin
>>
>> Israel grants citizenship to all Jews. Foreign nationals, as with 
>> Israeli-born citizens, who meet the requirements for admission into the 
>> military 
>> <http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/army/serving-in-the-israeli-army.html>, 
>> must serve out their compulsory service. The mandatory service applies to 
>> men age 18-25 and women age 17-20.
>>
>> His family tree bearing the names of relatives who perished in the 
>> Holocaust, Williamsport attorney Clifford Rieders said the decision by his 
>> daughter Kaila to move to Israel and join the army did not surprise him.
>>
>> "We are very proud of her," Rieders said. Kaila, who is 23, reports for 
>> basic training on Aug. 24.
>>
>> The weight of the sacrifice - particularly in the wake of the deaths of 
>> the two American soldiers - weigh on young Americans in Israel.
>>
>> "I think all deaths are sad but there is something really special about 
>> someone who came here and left their home to do something they really 
>> wanted to do and give his life for it," Siegel said. "It's just sad. These 
>> people a made choice and knew what they were doing. We are just very 
>> grateful for them."
>>
>> To be sure, such commitment also weighs heavily on the families in the 
>> U.S. watching the events in Israel and Gaza unfold.
>>
>> "It's very a frightening situation," said Rabbi Eric Cytryn of Beth El 
>> Temple in Harrisburg, whose daughter, Sarah, her husband and nine-month son 
>> live in Israel. Gabi Mitchell, Cytryn's son-in-law, serves in the IDF.
>>
>> "No one should have to live under the threat of having missiles shot at 
>> you by your neighbors. We are scared for our children on that level but we 
>> are hopeful that this will all stop as soon as possible."
>>
>> Cytryn was in Jerusalem a few weeks ago when the first wave of rockets 
>> aimed at Israel were destroyed by the country's Iron Dome defense system.
>>
>> For now, he takes comfort in the fact that they will return to the states 
>> in a few weeks, as his son-in-law prepares to enter into a doctorate 
>> program at Virginia Tech.
>>
>> "It makes us feel happy," Cytryn said. "They will be two-and-a-half hours 
>> away. There's probably little danger that Maryland and North Carolina will 
>> want to shoot missiles at them."
>>
>> Eva Siegel, Traci's mother, also finds a measure of comfort knowing her 
>> daughter lives in Jerusalem, and not closer to Gaza. But in a country the 
>> size of New Jersey, distances are relative. A few weeks ago, she was on the 
>> phone with her daughter when the sirens went off, warning Israeli citizens 
>> of incoming rockets.
>>
>> "Most of the time I  know she's safe," Eva Siegel said. "I know Israel is 
>> doing whatever it can to protect its citizens. It's a tough situation, 
>> though, knowing you child is in country at war."
>>
>> Siegel said that while it's a heroic sacrifice for Americans to live a 
>> safe country and volunteer to serve in the IDF, she mourns the lives of all 
>> who have been killed in the fighting.
>>
>> Although she had reservations when Traci first told her of her decision 
>> to move to Israel, Eva Siegel says she is nothing but proud of her 
>> daughter's decision.
>>
>> "The path she chose, to move to Israel all alone, is very challenging 
>> under the best of circumstances," she said. "It is hard enough for young 
>> college graduates to become independent here. She is navigating life in a 
>> foreign country....While we miss her, we are proud and supportive of the 
>> choices she has made."
>>
>> Siegel, who completed her service with the Israeli Air Force in April, 
>> will attend Tel Aviv University in the fall where she will start a Masters 
>> program in public policy.
>>
>> Although she is fiercely loyal and supportive of Israel, Traci Siegel 
>> would prefer to see Israel resolve the conflict in a diplomatic way, rather 
>> than wage a war.
>>
>> "I  moved here and served in the army," she said. "All I want to do is 
>> serve this country. I just think I  have a different vision of how things 
>> could work."
>> ---
>> 1,000 Americans Are Serving in the Israeli Army and They Aren’t Alone
>> The Jewish state is one of four that let U.S. citizens in their 
>> militaries. 
>>
>> The death of two Americans serving in Israel’s military in this weekend’s 
>> fighting with Hamas in Gaza is not the first time Americans have died while 
>> serving in foreign militaries. 
>>
>> Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, of Texas, 
>> were serving in the Israeli army when they died along with 11 other Israeli 
>> soldiers over the weekend. At least 60 Palestinians were also killed.
>>
>> “All of them have joint citizenship,” Maya Kadosh, Israel’s Houston-based 
>> deputy consul to the Southwest United States, told *The New York Times 
>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/2-americans-among-israeli-soldiers-killed-in-gaza.html>*.
>>  
>> “They are very proud. They are not less American when they serve in the 
>> army. They are more American. They feel they protect the values of the 
>> place they came from, and they also protect the values of the state of 
>> Israel.”
>>
>> Steinberg and Carmeli were not alone in Israel. Today, the Jewish state 
>> has one of the largest number of Americans serving in its military, with 
>> roughly 1,000 Americans who did not grow up there serving, said Israeli 
>> Defense Force (IDF) spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss. In total, it has about 
>> 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops. 
>>
>> While Israel is a bit of a special case—foreign-born Jews often serve in 
>> the Israeli military thanks to that country’s right of return—three other 
>> militaries either actively recruit Americans or are open to them. Australia 
>> and New Zealand both have programs to fill spots in their militaries by 
>> active-duty or veteran service members, and the French Foreign Legion is 
>> legendary for taking almost anyone who shows up at their recruitment 
>> offices outside Paris. (Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl reportedly tried to join the 
>> Legion 
>> <http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/13-things-you-need-to-know-about-bowe-bergdahl-20140602>
>>  
>> before enlisting in the U.S. Army.) 
>>
>> But estimating the number of Americans serving in foreign militaries is 
>> fiendishly difficult, since it includes both U.S. citizens serving in the 
>> aforementioned militaries and dual-citizens serving in the militaries of 
>> the other countries. A State Department official said the department 
>> doesn’t track who is serving in foreign armies.
>>
>> Dual citizenship can sometimes complicate things for traveling Americans, 
>> though. There have been several instances of 18-year-old men vacationing in 
>> ye olde country and then finding out they’re responsible for national 
>> service there. In 2004, a Korean-American man, born in the United States, 
>> was teaching English outside Seoul when he was drafted into the South 
>> Korean army for two years 
>> <http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/The-accidental-citizen-soldier-1141729.php>
>>  
>> after he failed to fill out his paperwork renouncing his Korean citizenship 
>> before his 18th birthday. He was stopped while trying to return to the U.S. 
>> and conscripted.
>>
>> While forced conscription of Americans is rare, the practice of 
>> volunteering has a storied history. Before the United States joined the 
>> Allies in WWI, a number of Americans joined the Canadian army to get in on 
>> the action. During the 1930s, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish 
>> Civil War was made up exclusively of Americans fighting against the 
>> fascists. By the time of Pearl Harbor, more than 6,000 U.S. citizens were 
>> serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force and 10,000 in the Canadian Army, 
>> according to Col. Stanley W. Dzuiban, author of *Military Relations 
>> Between the United States and Canada, 1939-1945*.
>>
>> For the most part, this is all legal. Prior to 1967, Americans risked 
>> losing their citizenship if they joined a foreign military or even voted in 
>> a foreign election. That year, the Supreme Court decision in *Afroyim v. 
>> Rusk* established that citizenship is a constitutional right and can’t 
>> be stripped involuntarily. So, you’re free to join up with whatever 
>> military that will take you, as long as you don’t engage in active 
>> hostilities against the U.S. What is illegal is recruiting within the U.S. 
>> So, traveling to Israel to join is OK, but the IDF won’t be setting up next 
>> to the U.S. Army recruiting station in Times Square any time soon.
>>
>> Of course, non-state actors, such as al Qaeda, ISIS, the FSA, Libyan 
>> rebels, etc. accept Americans, but that’s frowned upon by the State 
>> Department. 
>>
>> One peril while serving in a foreign military: the possibility of 
>> committing war crimes. Chuckie Taylor, son of Liberian warlord Charles 
>> Taylor, was an American citizen who was convicted in 2008 in Florida for 
>> torture in the Liberian civil war. He was the first American convicted on 
>> U.S. soil for crimes against humanity in another country. 
>>
>> And let’s not even get into the case of John Walker Lindh, the “American 
>> Taliban,” currently serving time after being captured in Afghanistan in 
>> 2001. His family argued in his trial that he only joined a foreign 
>> military, the Taliban, and didn’t intend to fight the U.S., but that didn’t 
>> fly. 
>> The U.S. military likewise is open to non-citizens 
>> <http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-through-military-service-fact-sheet>,
>>  
>> with all active-duty personnel able to file for citizenship immediately and 
>> receive expedited treatment from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration 
>> Services. From September 2002 to May 2013, almost 90,000 members of the 
>> Armed Forces gained citizenship.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:38:42 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote:
>>>
>>> http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-
>>> american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/
>>>
>>> Dem Rep: 40 American ISIL Fighters Have Already Returned to the United 
>>> States
>>> These individuals under surveillance, 'being tracked' by the FBI
>>> SHARE 
>>> <http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/>
>>> TWEET 
>>> <http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreebeacon.com%2Fnational-security%2Fdem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states%2F&text=Dem%20Rep:%2040%20American%20ISIL%20Fighters%20Have%20Already%20Returned%20to%20the%20United%20States>
>>> EMAIL
>>> [image: AP] 
>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/>
>>>
>>> AP
>>>       
>>>
>>> BY: Adam Kredo <http://freebeacon.com/author/adam-kredo/>  
>>> September 19, 2014 9:35 am
>>>
>>> Rep. Tim Bishop (D., N.Y.) warned during a recent speech that up to 40 
>>> radicalized U.S. citizens who have fought alongside the Islamic State of 
>>> Iraq and Levant (ISIL or ISIS) have already returned to the United States, 
>>> where they could pose a terrorist threat.
>>>
>>> Bishop claims that of the 100 or so Americans who have traveled to the 
>>> Middle East to join ISIL’s ranks, some 40 have returned and are currently 
>>> being surveilled by the FBI, according to his remarks, which were filmed 
>>> and uploaded 
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gPDpYSMyw&list=UUqNfXxfww4ATBZsbv64nwRg> 
>>> to 
>>> YouTube last week.
>>>
>>> “One of the concerns is the number of U.S. citizens who have left our 
>>> country to go join up with ISIS,” Bishop said during the speech. “It is 
>>> believed there have been some number up to 100 that have done that.”
>>>
>>> “It is also believed that some 40 of those who left this country to join 
>>> up with ISIS have now returned to our country,” Bishop said, eliciting 
>>> shocked responses from some in the crowd.
>>>
>>> These 40 individuals, Bishop said, “are under FBI attention and 
>>> surveillance. So they are known and being tracked by the FBI.”
>>>
>>> Lawmakers have warned that radicalized ISIL fighters could clandestinely 
>>> enter the United States through the porous southern border.
>>>
>>> U.S. officials with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and other 
>>> security agencies have said that while the southern border poses a risk, 
>>> they are more concerned about lone wolf attacks in which an isolated 
>>> radicalized individual with sympathy to ISIL carries out a solo terror 
>>> attack.
>>>
>>> Bishop said that while ISIL poses and extreme threat, it is not yet 
>>> capable of attacking the United States, though that could change as the 
>>> group grows in strength and resources.
>>>
>>> “It is a very, very complex and very, very dangerous threat and I think 
>>> the plan that the president outlined the other night [in his national 
>>> speech] is a good plan,” Bishop maintained.
>>>
>>> President Obama “is correct to recognize the threat, and it clearly is a 
>>> threat to the stability of the Middle East, a region that is already 
>>> remarkably unstable,” Bishop said.
>>>
>>> “It is not yet a threat to the homeland, but there is a concern that it 
>>> could metastasize in such a way that it could become a threat to the 
>>> homeland,” Bishop said, echoing concerns expressed by lawmakers on both 
>>> sides of the isle.
>>>
>>> “But at the present time, the intelligence is ISIS does not present a 
>>> threat to the homeland, although that is not something that will remain 
>>> static going out into the future,” Bishop said, describing the regional 
>>> upheaval as “more of a political conflict in the Arab world then a 
>>> sectarian conflict” between Muslims.
>>>
>>> DHS has said that while there is no evidence of a direct threat by ISIL 
>>> to the United States, it is aware that the group’s affiliates have been 
>>> discussing the possibility of crossing the southern border.
>>>
>>> “There have been Twitter, social media exchanges among ISIL adherents 
>>> across the globe speaking about that as a possibility,” Francis Taylor, 
>>> under secretary for intelligence and analysis at DHS, told senators during 
>>> a recent hearing 
>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-confirms-isil-planning-infiltration-of-u-s-southern-border/>
>>> .
>>>
>>> Other U.S. officials also have discussed the possibility of an ISIL 
>>> adherent carrying out an attack on the United States.
>>>
>>> “We remain mindful of the possibility that an ISIL-sympathizer—perhaps 
>>> motivated by online propaganda—could conduct a limited, self-directed 
>>> attack here at home with no warning,” Matthew Olsen, director of the U.S. 
>>> National Counterterrorism Center, said in a speech earlier this month.
>>>
>>> “We have seen ISIL use a range of media to tout its military 
>>> capabilities, executions of captured soldiers, and consecutive battlefield 
>>> victories,” Olsen said. “More recently, the group’s supporters have 
>>> sustained this momentum on social media by encouraging attacks in the U.S. 
>>> and against U.S. interests in retaliation for our airstrikes. ISIL has used 
>>> this propaganda campaign to draw foreign fighters to the group, including 
>>> many from Western 
>>>
>>> http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/gop-rep-at-
>>> least-ten-isis-fighters-have-been-caught-coming-across-the-
>>> mexican-border/
>>>
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