Plain Ol' said: *"give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for israel."*
I doubt this, for a number of reasons, but "IF" this were to happen, then obviously my position on Israel would change....It would be "part and parcel" of "Us"! On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:08 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> wrote: > I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these > individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have > no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are > Israelis and NOT Americans! > --- > on this we agree. > give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for > israel. > > Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to defend and support > Israel. Obviously you do! > -- > not as long as they go home without extorted US weapons and tax dollars. > > On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:38:41 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these >> individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have >> no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are >> Israelis and NOT Americans! Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to >> defend and support Israel. Obviously you do! >> >> >> >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:29 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Americans join, die for the Israeli army over allegiance to Jewish >>> homeland >>> 1 / 6 >>> In this June 2012 photo courtesy of Stuart Steinberg, Max Steinberg >>> poses on a trip to Israel. Stuart Steinberg confirmed the death of his son >>> Max Steinberg to The Associated Press on Sunday, July, 20, 2014. Steinberg, >>> whose family lives in Southern California's San Fernando Valley, was a >>> sharpshooter for the Golani Brigade in the Israel Defense Forces. (AP >>> Photo/Courtesy of Stuart Steinberg) >>> The Associated Press >>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/pennap/photos.html> >>> Print >>> <http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/print.html?entry=/2014/07/israel_idf_americans_in_idf_ga.html> >>> [image: Ivey DeJesus | [email protected]] >>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/index.html> By Ivey DeJesus >>> | [email protected] >>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/posts.html> >>> Email the author | Follow on Twitter <http://twitter.com/iveydejesus> >>> on July 31, 2014 at 1:51 PM, updated August 01, 2014 at 6:50 AM >>> >>> Traci Siegel grew up strongly identifying with her Jewish roots. The >>> former Susquehanna Township resident attended Jewish schools, Jewish summer >>> camps and took several family trips to Israel. >>> >>> "I loved it there," said Siegel, who was 14 the first time she traveled >>> to Israel. >>> >>> Two years ago, after completing her undergraduate degree at the >>> University of Maryland, Siegel moved to Israel, and before long, >>> volunteered to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. >>> >>> "I saw my future here," she said during a phone interview this week from >>> Jerusalem. "I identified with the culture and with the people, especially >>> with my interest in politics." >>> >>> For Siegel, as with many of the young Americans who put their lives at >>> risk to defend Israel, her commitment to serve was a natural extension of >>> her affinity to the Jewish homeland. >>> >>> "Most people here serve in the military," said Siegel, 25. "It's so much >>> a part of the culture and identity. I thought it was a good idea to serve >>> to integrate myself better." >>> [image: Traci Siegel, IDF]Harrisburg native Traci Siegel moved to >>> Israel and joined the Israel Defense Forces. She said a desire to integrate >>> into the country's culture and identity compelled her to join. She >>> completed her service in April. Her parents live in Susquehanna >>> Township.Courtesy >>> of Traci Siegel >>> >>> The bloody conflict escalation between Israel and Hamas has shed light >>> on the number of Americans serving in the IDF, and the weight of their >>> sacrifice. Since the start of the fighting three weeks ago, at least two >>> Americans have been killed: Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim >>> Sean Carmeli, 22, of Texas. >>> >>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >>> families and friends on a personal level," said Aviva Miskin, of >>> Harrisburg, whose two sons live in Israel, and as citizens must meet the >>> country's compulsory army and reserve obligations. "It is their duty and >>> responsibility to serve and defend their country against terrorist attacks." >>> >>> In the 23 days of fighting, approximately 1,300 Palestinians and 56 >>> Israeli soldiers have been killed. International efforts to end the >>> fighting have failed. Palestinian leaders - including Hamas and Islamic >>> Jihad leaders - were expected in Cairo in the coming days to discuss a new >>> truce proposal. >>> >>> On Thursday, The Times of Israel was reporting that ceasefire >>> negotiations were at a dead end >>> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceasefire-talks-at-dead-end-palestinian-official-says/> >>> . >>> >>> In interviews with other media, IDF spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss reports >>> that close to 1,000 Americans serve in the IDF. In total, the force has >>> about 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops, or lone soldiers, foreign nationals >>> who volunteer to serve in the IDF. Lone soldiers are different than the >>> American citizens who have become Israeli citizens and serve in the IDF. >>> >>> "These are kids who have a strong sense of who they are and they >>> understand history and feel that by doing this they are protecting >>> democracy and Jews worldwide," said Philip Berry, Mid-Atlantic region >>> executive director of Friends of the Israel Defense Forces >>> <http://www.fidf.org/page.aspx?pid=194>, an organization that works to >>> support lone soldiers and their families. "They have a strong sense of >>> community and love for the U.S. and Israel." >>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >>> families and friends on a personal level." - Aviva Miskin >>> >>> Israel grants citizenship to all Jews. Foreign nationals, as with >>> Israeli-born citizens, who meet the requirements for admission into the >>> military >>> <http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/army/serving-in-the-israeli-army.html>, >>> must serve out their compulsory service. The mandatory service applies to >>> men age 18-25 and women age 17-20. >>> >>> His family tree bearing the names of relatives who perished in the >>> Holocaust, Williamsport attorney Clifford Rieders said the decision by his >>> daughter Kaila to move to Israel and join the army did not surprise him. >>> >>> "We are very proud of her," Rieders said. Kaila, who is 23, reports for >>> basic training on Aug. 24. >>> >>> The weight of the sacrifice - particularly in the wake of the deaths of >>> the two American soldiers - weigh on young Americans in Israel. >>> >>> "I think all deaths are sad but there is something really special about >>> someone who came here and left their home to do something they really >>> wanted to do and give his life for it," Siegel said. "It's just sad. These >>> people a made choice and knew what they were doing. We are just very >>> grateful for them." >>> >>> To be sure, such commitment also weighs heavily on the families in the >>> U.S. watching the events in Israel and Gaza unfold. >>> >>> "It's very a frightening situation," said Rabbi Eric Cytryn of Beth El >>> Temple in Harrisburg, whose daughter, Sarah, her husband and nine-month son >>> live in Israel. Gabi Mitchell, Cytryn's son-in-law, serves in the IDF. >>> >>> "No one should have to live under the threat of having missiles shot at >>> you by your neighbors. We are scared for our children on that level but we >>> are hopeful that this will all stop as soon as possible." >>> >>> Cytryn was in Jerusalem a few weeks ago when the first wave of rockets >>> aimed at Israel were destroyed by the country's Iron Dome defense system. >>> >>> For now, he takes comfort in the fact that they will return to the >>> states in a few weeks, as his son-in-law prepares to enter into a doctorate >>> program at Virginia Tech. >>> >>> "It makes us feel happy," Cytryn said. "They will be two-and-a-half >>> hours away. There's probably little danger that Maryland and North Carolina >>> will want to shoot missiles at them." >>> >>> Eva Siegel, Traci's mother, also finds a measure of comfort knowing her >>> daughter lives in Jerusalem, and not closer to Gaza. But in a country the >>> size of New Jersey, distances are relative. A few weeks ago, she was on the >>> phone with her daughter when the sirens went off, warning Israeli citizens >>> of incoming rockets. >>> >>> "Most of the time I know she's safe," Eva Siegel said. "I know Israel >>> is doing whatever it can to protect its citizens. It's a tough situation, >>> though, knowing you child is in country at war." >>> >>> Siegel said that while it's a heroic sacrifice for Americans to live a >>> safe country and volunteer to serve in the IDF, she mourns the lives of all >>> who have been killed in the fighting. >>> >>> Although she had reservations when Traci first told her of her decision >>> to move to Israel, Eva Siegel says she is nothing but proud of her >>> daughter's decision. >>> >>> "The path she chose, to move to Israel all alone, is very challenging >>> under the best of circumstances," she said. "It is hard enough for young >>> college graduates to become independent here. She is navigating life in a >>> foreign country....While we miss her, we are proud and supportive of the >>> choices she has made." >>> >>> Siegel, who completed her service with the Israeli Air Force in April, >>> will attend Tel Aviv University in the fall where she will start a Masters >>> program in public policy. >>> >>> Although she is fiercely loyal and supportive of Israel, Traci Siegel >>> would prefer to see Israel resolve the conflict in a diplomatic way, rather >>> than wage a war. >>> >>> "I moved here and served in the army," she said. "All I want to do is >>> serve this country. I just think I have a different vision of how things >>> could work." >>> --- >>> 1,000 Americans Are Serving in the Israeli Army and They Aren’t Alone >>> The Jewish state is one of four that let U.S. citizens in their >>> militaries. >>> >>> The death of two Americans serving in Israel’s military in this >>> weekend’s fighting with Hamas in Gaza is not the first time Americans have >>> died while serving in foreign militaries. >>> >>> Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, of Texas, >>> were serving in the Israeli army when they died along with 11 other Israeli >>> soldiers over the weekend. At least 60 Palestinians were also killed. >>> >>> “All of them have joint citizenship,” Maya Kadosh, Israel’s >>> Houston-based deputy consul to the Southwest United States, told *The >>> New York Times >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/2-americans-among-israeli-soldiers-killed-in-gaza.html>*. >>> “They are very proud. They are not less American when they serve in the >>> army. They are more American. They feel they protect the values of the >>> place they came from, and they also protect the values of the state of >>> Israel.” >>> >>> Steinberg and Carmeli were not alone in Israel. Today, the Jewish state >>> has one of the largest number of Americans serving in its military, with >>> roughly 1,000 Americans who did not grow up there serving, said Israeli >>> Defense Force (IDF) spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss. In total, it has about >>> 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops. >>> >>> While Israel is a bit of a special case—foreign-born Jews often serve in >>> the Israeli military thanks to that country’s right of return—three other >>> militaries either actively recruit Americans or are open to them. Australia >>> and New Zealand both have programs to fill spots in their militaries by >>> active-duty or veteran service members, and the French Foreign Legion is >>> legendary for taking almost anyone who shows up at their recruitment >>> offices outside Paris. (Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl reportedly tried to join the >>> Legion >>> <http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/13-things-you-need-to-know-about-bowe-bergdahl-20140602> >>> before enlisting in the U.S. Army.) >>> >>> But estimating the number of Americans serving in foreign militaries is >>> fiendishly difficult, since it includes both U.S. citizens serving in the >>> aforementioned militaries and dual-citizens serving in the militaries of >>> the other countries. A State Department official said the department >>> doesn’t track who is serving in foreign armies. >>> >>> Dual citizenship can sometimes complicate things for traveling >>> Americans, though. There have been several instances of 18-year-old men >>> vacationing in ye olde country and then finding out they’re responsible for >>> national service there. In 2004, a Korean-American man, born in the United >>> States, was teaching English outside Seoul when he was drafted into the >>> South Korean army for two years >>> <http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/The-accidental-citizen-soldier-1141729.php> >>> after he failed to fill out his paperwork renouncing his Korean citizenship >>> before his 18th birthday. He was stopped while trying to return to the U.S. >>> and conscripted. >>> >>> While forced conscription of Americans is rare, the practice of >>> volunteering has a storied history. Before the United States joined the >>> Allies in WWI, a number of Americans joined the Canadian army to get in on >>> the action. During the 1930s, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish >>> Civil War was made up exclusively of Americans fighting against the >>> fascists. By the time of Pearl Harbor, more than 6,000 U.S. citizens were >>> serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force and 10,000 in the Canadian Army, >>> according to Col. Stanley W. Dzuiban, author of *Military Relations >>> Between the United States and Canada, 1939-1945*. >>> >>> For the most part, this is all legal. Prior to 1967, Americans risked >>> losing their citizenship if they joined a foreign military or even voted in >>> a foreign election. That year, the Supreme Court decision in *Afroyim >>> v. Rusk* established that citizenship is a constitutional right and >>> can’t be stripped involuntarily. So, you’re free to join up with whatever >>> military that will take you, as long as you don’t engage in active >>> hostilities against the U.S. What is illegal is recruiting within the U.S. >>> So, traveling to Israel to join is OK, but the IDF won’t be setting up next >>> to the U.S. Army recruiting station in Times Square any time soon. >>> >>> Of course, non-state actors, such as al Qaeda, ISIS, the FSA, Libyan >>> rebels, etc. accept Americans, but that’s frowned upon by the State >>> Department. >>> >>> One peril while serving in a foreign military: the possibility of >>> committing war crimes. Chuckie Taylor, son of Liberian warlord Charles >>> Taylor, was an American citizen who was convicted in 2008 in Florida for >>> torture in the Liberian civil war. He was the first American convicted on >>> U.S. soil for crimes against humanity in another country. >>> >>> And let’s not even get into the case of John Walker Lindh, the “American >>> Taliban,” currently serving time after being captured in Afghanistan in >>> 2001. His family argued in his trial that he only joined a foreign >>> military, the Taliban, and didn’t intend to fight the U.S., but that didn’t >>> fly. >>> The U.S. military likewise is open to non-citizens >>> <http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-through-military-service-fact-sheet>, >>> with all active-duty personnel able to file for citizenship immediately and >>> receive expedited treatment from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration >>> Services. From September 2002 to May 2013, almost 90,000 members of the >>> Armed Forces gained citizenship. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:38:42 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>> >>>> http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american- >>>> isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/ >>>> >>>> Dem Rep: 40 American ISIL Fighters Have Already Returned to the United >>>> States >>>> These individuals under surveillance, 'being tracked' by the FBI >>>> SHARE >>>> <http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>>> TWEET >>>> <http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreebeacon.com%2Fnational-security%2Fdem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states%2F&text=Dem%20Rep:%2040%20American%20ISIL%20Fighters%20Have%20Already%20Returned%20to%20the%20United%20States> >>>> EMAIL >>>> [image: AP] >>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>>> >>>> AP >>>> >>>> >>>> BY: Adam Kredo <http://freebeacon.com/author/adam-kredo/> >>>> September 19, 2014 9:35 am >>>> >>>> Rep. Tim Bishop (D., N.Y.) warned during a recent speech that up to 40 >>>> radicalized U.S. citizens who have fought alongside the Islamic State of >>>> Iraq and Levant (ISIL or ISIS) have already returned to the United States, >>>> where they could pose a terrorist threat. >>>> >>>> Bishop claims that of the 100 or so Americans who have traveled to the >>>> Middle East to join ISIL’s ranks, some 40 have returned and are currently >>>> being surveilled by the FBI, according to his remarks, which were filmed >>>> and uploaded >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gPDpYSMyw&list=UUqNfXxfww4ATBZsbv64nwRg> >>>> to >>>> YouTube last week. >>>> >>>> “One of the concerns is the number of U.S. citizens who have left our >>>> country to go join up with ISIS,” Bishop said during the speech. “It is >>>> believed there have been some number up to 100 that have done that.” >>>> >>>> “It is also believed that some 40 of those who left this country to >>>> join up with ISIS have now returned to our country,” Bishop said, eliciting >>>> shocked responses from some in the crowd. >>>> >>>> These 40 individuals, Bishop said, “are under FBI attention and >>>> surveillance. So they are known and being tracked by the FBI.” >>>> >>>> Lawmakers have warned that radicalized ISIL fighters could >>>> clandestinely enter the United States through the porous southern border. >>>> >>>> U.S. officials with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and other >>>> security agencies have said that while the southern border poses a risk, >>>> they are more concerned about lone wolf attacks in which an isolated >>>> radicalized individual with sympathy to ISIL carries out a solo terror >>>> attack. >>>> >>>> Bishop said that while ISIL poses and extreme threat, it is not yet >>>> capable of attacking the United States, though that could change as the >>>> group grows in strength and resources. >>>> >>>> “It is a very, very complex and very, very dangerous threat and I think >>>> the plan that the president outlined the other night [in his national >>>> speech] is a good plan,” Bishop maintained. >>>> >>>> President Obama “is correct to recognize the threat, and it clearly is >>>> a threat to the stability of the Middle East, a region that is already >>>> remarkably unstable,” Bishop said. >>>> >>>> “It is not yet a threat to the homeland, but there is a concern that it >>>> could metastasize in such a way that it could become a threat to the >>>> homeland,” Bishop said, echoing concerns expressed by lawmakers on both >>>> sides of the isle. >>>> >>>> “But at the present time, the intelligence is ISIS does not present a >>>> threat to the homeland, although that is not something that will remain >>>> static going out into the future,” Bishop said, describing the regional >>>> upheaval as “more of a political conflict in the Arab world then a >>>> sectarian conflict” between Muslims. >>>> >>>> DHS has said that while there is no evidence of a direct threat by ISIL >>>> to the United States, it is aware that the group’s affiliates have been >>>> discussing the possibility of crossing the southern border. >>>> >>>> “There have been Twitter, social media exchanges among ISIL adherents >>>> across the globe speaking about that as a possibility,” Francis Taylor, >>>> under secretary for intelligence and analysis at DHS, told senators during >>>> a recent hearing >>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-confirms-isil-planning-infiltration-of-u-s-southern-border/> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Other U.S. officials also have discussed the possibility of an ISIL >>>> adherent carrying out an attack on the United States. >>>> >>>> “We remain mindful of the possibility that an ISIL-sympathizer—perhaps >>>> motivated by online propaganda—could conduct a limited, self-directed >>>> attack here at home with no warning,” Matthew Olsen, director of the U.S. >>>> National Counterterrorism Center, said in a speech earlier this month. >>>> >>>> “We have seen ISIL use a range of media to tout its military >>>> capabilities, executions of captured soldiers, and consecutive battlefield >>>> victories,” Olsen said. “More recently, the group’s supporters have >>>> sustained this momentum on social media by encouraging attacks in the U.S. >>>> and against U.S. interests in retaliation for our airstrikes. ISIL has used >>>> this propaganda campaign to draw foreign fighters to the group, including >>>> many from Western >>>> >>>> http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/gop-rep-at-least- >>>> ten-isis-fighters-have-been-caught-coming-across-the-mexican-border/ >>>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
