even after their terrorists attacks, extortion, and spying? know the enemy.
On Thursday, October 9, 2014 1:12:42 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: > > Plain Ol' said: > > *"give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for > israel."* > > I doubt this, for a number of reasons, but "IF" this were to happen, then > obviously my position on Israel would change....It would be "part and > parcel" of "Us"! > > > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:08 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these >> individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have >> no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are >> Israelis and NOT Americans! >> --- >> on this we agree. >> give it time ... they'll eventually put a 51st star on the US flag for >> israel. >> >> Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to defend and support >> Israel. Obviously you do! >> -- >> not as long as they go home without extorted US weapons and tax dollars. >> >> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:38:41 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>> >>> I have no problem with this Plain Ol! My only hesitation, is that these >>> individuals should renounce their American citizenship and although I have >>> no objections to them visiting or even living in America, they are >>> Israelis and NOT Americans! Again, I have no qualms with Jews who want to >>> defend and support Israel. Obviously you do! >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 1:29 PM, plainolamerican <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Americans join, die for the Israeli army over allegiance to Jewish >>>> homeland >>>> 1 / 6 >>>> In this June 2012 photo courtesy of Stuart Steinberg, Max Steinberg >>>> poses on a trip to Israel. Stuart Steinberg confirmed the death of his son >>>> Max Steinberg to The Associated Press on Sunday, July, 20, 2014. >>>> Steinberg, >>>> whose family lives in Southern California's San Fernando Valley, was a >>>> sharpshooter for the Golani Brigade in the Israel Defense Forces. (AP >>>> Photo/Courtesy of Stuart Steinberg) >>>> The Associated Press >>>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/pennap/photos.html> >>>> Print >>>> <http://blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/print.html?entry=/2014/07/israel_idf_americans_in_idf_ga.html> >>>> >>>> [image: Ivey DeJesus | [email protected]] >>>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/index.html> By Ivey >>>> DeJesus | [email protected] >>>> <http://connect.pennlive.com/staff/idejesus/posts.html> >>>> Email the author | Follow on Twitter <http://twitter.com/iveydejesus> >>>> on July 31, 2014 at 1:51 PM, updated August 01, 2014 at 6:50 AM >>>> >>>> Traci Siegel grew up strongly identifying with her Jewish roots. The >>>> former Susquehanna Township resident attended Jewish schools, Jewish >>>> summer >>>> camps and took several family trips to Israel. >>>> >>>> "I loved it there," said Siegel, who was 14 the first time she traveled >>>> to Israel. >>>> >>>> Two years ago, after completing her undergraduate degree at the >>>> University of Maryland, Siegel moved to Israel, and before long, >>>> volunteered to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. >>>> >>>> "I saw my future here," she said during a phone interview this week >>>> from Jerusalem. "I identified with the culture and with the people, >>>> especially with my interest in politics." >>>> >>>> For Siegel, as with many of the young Americans who put their lives at >>>> risk to defend Israel, her commitment to serve was a natural extension of >>>> her affinity to the Jewish homeland. >>>> >>>> "Most people here serve in the military," said Siegel, 25. "It's so >>>> much a part of the culture and identity. I thought it was a good idea to >>>> serve to integrate myself better." >>>> [image: Traci Siegel, IDF]Harrisburg native Traci Siegel moved to >>>> Israel and joined the Israel Defense Forces. She said a desire to >>>> integrate >>>> into the country's culture and identity compelled her to join. She >>>> completed her service in April. Her parents live in Susquehanna >>>> Township.Courtesy >>>> of Traci Siegel >>>> >>>> The bloody conflict escalation between Israel and Hamas has shed light >>>> on the number of Americans serving in the IDF, and the weight of their >>>> sacrifice. Since the start of the fighting three weeks ago, at least two >>>> Americans have been killed: Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim >>>> Sean Carmeli, 22, of Texas. >>>> >>>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >>>> families and friends on a personal level," said Aviva Miskin, of >>>> Harrisburg, whose two sons live in Israel, and as citizens must meet the >>>> country's compulsory army and reserve obligations. "It is their duty and >>>> responsibility to serve and defend their country against terrorist >>>> attacks." >>>> >>>> In the 23 days of fighting, approximately 1,300 Palestinians and 56 >>>> Israeli soldiers have been killed. International efforts to end the >>>> fighting have failed. Palestinian leaders - including Hamas and Islamic >>>> Jihad leaders - were expected in Cairo in the coming days to discuss a new >>>> truce proposal. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, The Times of Israel was reporting that ceasefire >>>> negotiations were at a dead end >>>> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/ceasefire-talks-at-dead-end-palestinian-official-says/> >>>> . >>>> >>>> In interviews with other media, IDF spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss reports >>>> that close to 1,000 Americans serve in the IDF. In total, the force has >>>> about 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops, or lone soldiers, foreign nationals >>>> who volunteer to serve in the IDF. Lone soldiers are different than the >>>> American citizens who have become Israeli citizens and serve in the IDF. >>>> >>>> "These are kids who have a strong sense of who they are and they >>>> understand history and feel that by doing this they are protecting >>>> democracy and Jews worldwide," said Philip Berry, Mid-Atlantic region >>>> executive director of Friends of the Israel Defense Forces >>>> <http://www.fidf.org/page.aspx?pid=194>, an organization that works to >>>> support lone soldiers and their families. "They have a strong sense of >>>> community and love for the U.S. and Israel." >>>> "They are defending their homeland on a national level and their own >>>> families and friends on a personal level." - Aviva Miskin >>>> >>>> Israel grants citizenship to all Jews. Foreign nationals, as with >>>> Israeli-born citizens, who meet the requirements for admission into >>>> the military >>>> <http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/army/serving-in-the-israeli-army.html>, >>>> must serve out their compulsory service. The mandatory service applies to >>>> men age 18-25 and women age 17-20. >>>> >>>> His family tree bearing the names of relatives who perished in the >>>> Holocaust, Williamsport attorney Clifford Rieders said the decision by his >>>> daughter Kaila to move to Israel and join the army did not surprise him. >>>> >>>> "We are very proud of her," Rieders said. Kaila, who is 23, reports for >>>> basic training on Aug. 24. >>>> >>>> The weight of the sacrifice - particularly in the wake of the deaths of >>>> the two American soldiers - weigh on young Americans in Israel. >>>> >>>> "I think all deaths are sad but there is something really special about >>>> someone who came here and left their home to do something they really >>>> wanted to do and give his life for it," Siegel said. "It's just sad. These >>>> people a made choice and knew what they were doing. We are just very >>>> grateful for them." >>>> >>>> To be sure, such commitment also weighs heavily on the families in the >>>> U.S. watching the events in Israel and Gaza unfold. >>>> >>>> "It's very a frightening situation," said Rabbi Eric Cytryn of Beth El >>>> Temple in Harrisburg, whose daughter, Sarah, her husband and nine-month >>>> son >>>> live in Israel. Gabi Mitchell, Cytryn's son-in-law, serves in the IDF. >>>> >>>> "No one should have to live under the threat of having missiles shot at >>>> you by your neighbors. We are scared for our children on that level but we >>>> are hopeful that this will all stop as soon as possible." >>>> >>>> Cytryn was in Jerusalem a few weeks ago when the first wave of rockets >>>> aimed at Israel were destroyed by the country's Iron Dome defense system. >>>> >>>> For now, he takes comfort in the fact that they will return to the >>>> states in a few weeks, as his son-in-law prepares to enter into a >>>> doctorate >>>> program at Virginia Tech. >>>> >>>> "It makes us feel happy," Cytryn said. "They will be two-and-a-half >>>> hours away. There's probably little danger that Maryland and North >>>> Carolina >>>> will want to shoot missiles at them." >>>> >>>> Eva Siegel, Traci's mother, also finds a measure of comfort knowing her >>>> daughter lives in Jerusalem, and not closer to Gaza. But in a country the >>>> size of New Jersey, distances are relative. A few weeks ago, she was on >>>> the >>>> phone with her daughter when the sirens went off, warning Israeli citizens >>>> of incoming rockets. >>>> >>>> "Most of the time I know she's safe," Eva Siegel said. "I know Israel >>>> is doing whatever it can to protect its citizens. It's a tough situation, >>>> though, knowing you child is in country at war." >>>> >>>> Siegel said that while it's a heroic sacrifice for Americans to live a >>>> safe country and volunteer to serve in the IDF, she mourns the lives of >>>> all >>>> who have been killed in the fighting. >>>> >>>> Although she had reservations when Traci first told her of her decision >>>> to move to Israel, Eva Siegel says she is nothing but proud of her >>>> daughter's decision. >>>> >>>> "The path she chose, to move to Israel all alone, is very challenging >>>> under the best of circumstances," she said. "It is hard enough for young >>>> college graduates to become independent here. She is navigating life in a >>>> foreign country....While we miss her, we are proud and supportive of the >>>> choices she has made." >>>> >>>> Siegel, who completed her service with the Israeli Air Force in April, >>>> will attend Tel Aviv University in the fall where she will start a Masters >>>> program in public policy. >>>> >>>> Although she is fiercely loyal and supportive of Israel, Traci Siegel >>>> would prefer to see Israel resolve the conflict in a diplomatic way, >>>> rather >>>> than wage a war. >>>> >>>> "I moved here and served in the army," she said. "All I want to do is >>>> serve this country. I just think I have a different vision of how things >>>> could work." >>>> --- >>>> 1,000 Americans Are Serving in the Israeli Army and They Aren’t Alone >>>> The Jewish state is one of four that let U.S. citizens in their >>>> militaries. >>>> >>>> The death of two Americans serving in Israel’s military in this >>>> weekend’s fighting with Hamas in Gaza is not the first time Americans have >>>> died while serving in foreign militaries. >>>> >>>> Max Steinberg, 24, of California, and Nissim Sean Carmeli, 21, of >>>> Texas, were serving in the Israeli army when they died along with 11 other >>>> Israeli soldiers over the weekend. At least 60 Palestinians were also >>>> killed. >>>> >>>> “All of them have joint citizenship,” Maya Kadosh, Israel’s >>>> Houston-based deputy consul to the Southwest United States, told *The >>>> New York Times >>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/22/world/middleeast/2-americans-among-israeli-soldiers-killed-in-gaza.html>*. >>>> >>>> “They are very proud. They are not less American when they serve in the >>>> army. They are more American. They feel they protect the values of the >>>> place they came from, and they also protect the values of the state of >>>> Israel.” >>>> >>>> Steinberg and Carmeli were not alone in Israel. Today, the Jewish state >>>> has one of the largest number of Americans serving in its military, with >>>> roughly 1,000 Americans who did not grow up there serving, said Israeli >>>> Defense Force (IDF) spokeswoman Lt. Libby Weiss. In total, it has about >>>> 4,000 non-Israeli-born troops. >>>> >>>> While Israel is a bit of a special case—foreign-born Jews often serve >>>> in the Israeli military thanks to that country’s right of return—three >>>> other militaries either actively recruit Americans or are open to them. >>>> Australia and New Zealand both have programs to fill spots in their >>>> militaries by active-duty or veteran service members, and the French >>>> Foreign Legion is legendary for taking almost anyone who shows up at their >>>> recruitment offices outside Paris. (Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl reportedly tried to >>>> join >>>> the Legion >>>> <http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/13-things-you-need-to-know-about-bowe-bergdahl-20140602> >>>> >>>> before enlisting in the U.S. Army.) >>>> >>>> But estimating the number of Americans serving in foreign militaries is >>>> fiendishly difficult, since it includes both U.S. citizens serving in the >>>> aforementioned militaries and dual-citizens serving in the militaries of >>>> the other countries. A State Department official said the department >>>> doesn’t track who is serving in foreign armies. >>>> >>>> Dual citizenship can sometimes complicate things for traveling >>>> Americans, though. There have been several instances of 18-year-old men >>>> vacationing in ye olde country and then finding out they’re responsible >>>> for >>>> national service there. In 2004, a Korean-American man, born in the United >>>> States, was teaching English outside Seoul when he was drafted into >>>> the South Korean army for two years >>>> <http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/The-accidental-citizen-soldier-1141729.php> >>>> >>>> after he failed to fill out his paperwork renouncing his Korean >>>> citizenship >>>> before his 18th birthday. He was stopped while trying to return to the >>>> U.S. >>>> and conscripted. >>>> >>>> While forced conscription of Americans is rare, the practice of >>>> volunteering has a storied history. Before the United States joined the >>>> Allies in WWI, a number of Americans joined the Canadian army to get in on >>>> the action. During the 1930s, the Abraham Lincoln Brigade in the Spanish >>>> Civil War was made up exclusively of Americans fighting against the >>>> fascists. By the time of Pearl Harbor, more than 6,000 U.S. citizens were >>>> serving in the Royal Canadian Air Force and 10,000 in the Canadian Army, >>>> according to Col. Stanley W. Dzuiban, author of *Military Relations >>>> Between the United States and Canada, 1939-1945*. >>>> >>>> For the most part, this is all legal. Prior to 1967, Americans risked >>>> losing their citizenship if they joined a foreign military or even voted >>>> in >>>> a foreign election. That year, the Supreme Court decision in *Afroyim >>>> v. Rusk* established that citizenship is a constitutional right and >>>> can’t be stripped involuntarily. So, you’re free to join up with whatever >>>> military that will take you, as long as you don’t engage in active >>>> hostilities against the U.S. What is illegal is recruiting within the U.S. >>>> So, traveling to Israel to join is OK, but the IDF won’t be setting up >>>> next >>>> to the U.S. Army recruiting station in Times Square any time soon. >>>> >>>> Of course, non-state actors, such as al Qaeda, ISIS, the FSA, Libyan >>>> rebels, etc. accept Americans, but that’s frowned upon by the State >>>> Department. >>>> >>>> One peril while serving in a foreign military: the possibility of >>>> committing war crimes. Chuckie Taylor, son of Liberian warlord Charles >>>> Taylor, was an American citizen who was convicted in 2008 in Florida for >>>> torture in the Liberian civil war. He was the first American convicted on >>>> U.S. soil for crimes against humanity in another country. >>>> >>>> And let’s not even get into the case of John Walker Lindh, the >>>> “American Taliban,” currently serving time after being captured in >>>> Afghanistan in 2001. His family argued in his trial that he only joined a >>>> foreign military, the Taliban, and didn’t intend to fight the U.S., but >>>> that didn’t fly. >>>> The U.S. military likewise is open to non-citizens >>>> <http://www.uscis.gov/news/fact-sheets/naturalization-through-military-service-fact-sheet>, >>>> >>>> with all active-duty personnel able to file for citizenship immediately >>>> and >>>> receive expedited treatment from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration >>>> Services. From September 2002 to May 2013, almost 90,000 members of the >>>> Armed Forces gained citizenship. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, October 9, 2014 11:38:42 AM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>>> >>>>> http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american- >>>>> isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/ >>>>> >>>>> Dem Rep: 40 American ISIL Fighters Have Already Returned to the United >>>>> States >>>>> These individuals under surveillance, 'being tracked' by the FBI >>>>> SHARE >>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>>>> TWEET >>>>> <http://twitter.com/share?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffreebeacon.com%2Fnational-security%2Fdem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states%2F&text=Dem%20Rep:%2040%20American%20ISIL%20Fighters%20Have%20Already%20Returned%20to%20the%20United%20States> >>>>> EMAIL >>>>> [image: AP] >>>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/dem-rep-40-american-isil-fighters-have-already-returned-to-the-united-states/> >>>>> >>>>> AP >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BY: Adam Kredo <http://freebeacon.com/author/adam-kredo/> >>>>> September 19, 2014 9:35 am >>>>> >>>>> Rep. Tim Bishop (D., N.Y.) warned during a recent speech that up to 40 >>>>> radicalized U.S. citizens who have fought alongside the Islamic State of >>>>> Iraq and Levant (ISIL or ISIS) have already returned to the United >>>>> States, >>>>> where they could pose a terrorist threat. >>>>> >>>>> Bishop claims that of the 100 or so Americans who have traveled to the >>>>> Middle East to join ISIL’s ranks, some 40 have returned and are currently >>>>> being surveilled by the FBI, according to his remarks, which were filmed >>>>> and uploaded >>>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5gPDpYSMyw&list=UUqNfXxfww4ATBZsbv64nwRg> >>>>> to >>>>> YouTube last week. >>>>> >>>>> “One of the concerns is the number of U.S. citizens who have left our >>>>> country to go join up with ISIS,” Bishop said during the speech. “It is >>>>> believed there have been some number up to 100 that have done that.” >>>>> >>>>> “It is also believed that some 40 of those who left this country to >>>>> join up with ISIS have now returned to our country,” Bishop said, >>>>> eliciting >>>>> shocked responses from some in the crowd. >>>>> >>>>> These 40 individuals, Bishop said, “are under FBI attention and >>>>> surveillance. So they are known and being tracked by the FBI.” >>>>> >>>>> Lawmakers have warned that radicalized ISIL fighters could >>>>> clandestinely enter the United States through the porous southern border. >>>>> >>>>> U.S. officials with the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and >>>>> other security agencies have said that while the southern border poses a >>>>> risk, they are more concerned about lone wolf attacks in which an >>>>> isolated >>>>> radicalized individual with sympathy to ISIL carries out a solo terror >>>>> attack. >>>>> >>>>> Bishop said that while ISIL poses and extreme threat, it is not yet >>>>> capable of attacking the United States, though that could change as the >>>>> group grows in strength and resources. >>>>> >>>>> “It is a very, very complex and very, very dangerous threat and I >>>>> think the plan that the president outlined the other night [in his >>>>> national >>>>> speech] is a good plan,” Bishop maintained. >>>>> >>>>> President Obama “is correct to recognize the threat, and it clearly is >>>>> a threat to the stability of the Middle East, a region that is already >>>>> remarkably unstable,” Bishop said. >>>>> >>>>> “It is not yet a threat to the homeland, but there is a concern that >>>>> it could metastasize in such a way that it could become a threat to the >>>>> homeland,” Bishop said, echoing concerns expressed by lawmakers on both >>>>> sides of the isle. >>>>> >>>>> “But at the present time, the intelligence is ISIS does not present a >>>>> threat to the homeland, although that is not something that will remain >>>>> static going out into the future,” Bishop said, describing the regional >>>>> upheaval as “more of a political conflict in the Arab world then a >>>>> sectarian conflict” between Muslims. >>>>> >>>>> DHS has said that while there is no evidence of a direct threat by >>>>> ISIL to the United States, it is aware that the group’s affiliates have >>>>> been discussing the possibility of crossing the southern border. >>>>> >>>>> “There have been Twitter, social media exchanges among ISIL adherents >>>>> across the globe speaking about that as a possibility,” Francis Taylor, >>>>> under secretary for intelligence and analysis at DHS, told senators >>>>> during >>>>> a recent hearing >>>>> <http://freebeacon.com/national-security/u-s-confirms-isil-planning-infiltration-of-u-s-southern-border/> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Other U.S. officials also have discussed the possibility of an ISIL >>>>> adherent carrying out an attack on the United States. >>>>> >>>>> “We remain mindful of the possibility that an ISIL-sympathizer—perhaps >>>>> motivated by online propaganda—could conduct a limited, self-directed >>>>> attack here at home with no warning,” Matthew Olsen, director of the U.S. >>>>> National Counterterrorism Center, said in a speech earlier this month. >>>>> >>>>> “We have seen ISIL use a range of media to tout its military >>>>> capabilities, executions of captured soldiers, and consecutive >>>>> battlefield >>>>> victories,” Olsen said. “More recently, the group’s supporters have >>>>> sustained this momentum on social media by encouraging attacks in the >>>>> U.S. >>>>> and against U.S. interests in retaliation for our airstrikes. ISIL has >>>>> used >>>>> this propaganda campaign to draw foreign fighters to the group, including >>>>> many from Western >>>>> >>>>> http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/08/gop-rep-at-least- >>>>> ten-isis-fighters-have-been-caught-coming-across-the-mexican-border/ >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>>> >>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
