<Grin>! Good Answer!
On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:58 PM, 'Perplexed' via PoliticalForum < [email protected]> wrote: > > Thank you for the input from the Libertarian kiddy table. I suppose it's > much easier to criticize other parties when you never win elections, lol. > > On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 9:41:42 PM UTC-4, KeithInTampa wrote: >> >> Obviously you Michael, (for posting this) and literally clueless Nick >> Gillespie aren't watching the Republican National Convention! >> >> Anyone who watched the two surviving Benghazi soldiers tonight in >> Cleveland could not support Hil Clinton unless they are a traitor..... >> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> >>> *A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is all about >>> shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot even pretend >>> anymore to stand for any of those things. *Jul. 18, 2016 >>> >>> *The RNC Isn't a Convention, It's a Wake * >>> *Cleveland is where the GOP as we know it is going to die. *Nick >>> Gillespie >>> >>> Reason TV, Todd KraininThe Republican Party, conservatives, and >>> certainly Donald Trump may not fully understand it yet, but they are >>> meeting in Cleveland not to chart the future of the GOP but to host its >>> funeral. >>> >>> The Republican Party and the larger conservative movement for which it >>> has stood since the days of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan is dead but >>> not yet buried. A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is >>> all about shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot even >>> pretend anymore to stand for any of those things. As important, it hasn't >>> been serious about governing for a very long time. Remember just how >>> terrible and world-ending they said Obamacare was back in 2009 and 2010? >>> They weren't wrong and yet it took the Republicans, despite holding >>> congressional power for most of the 21st century, until June of this year >>> to roll out an actual alternative that certainly wasn't worth the wait >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/28/the-gops-new-health-care-plan-shows-that> >>> . >>> >>> Before whatever Trumpian display of narcissism, delusion, and disdain >>> for actual knowledge of policy and process clicks into high gear in >>> Cleveland over the next few days, it's worth taking stock of what the >>> Republican Party has become. Trump is not the cause of its collapse but an >>> effect of utter failure of Republicans to deliver even partly on their >>> promises over the past several decades. Republicans and conservatives have >>> officially elevated atavistic tribal allegiances to the most important >>> place possible in their causes. While Trump famously and disturbingly >>> called out Mexicans at the start of his speech announcing his candidacy >>> last year, his dyed-in-the-wool conserative critics actually attacked him >>> for not *being tough enough* on immigration. National Review, in its >>> house editorial laying out the case against Trump, didn't conjure the >>> ghosts of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush in 1980 arguing over who would >>> do more to legalize and help illegals gain a legitimate place in our >>> country >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/20/the-gops-35-year-devolution-on-immigrati>, >>> they said the Trump's plan to remove 11 or 12 million people from the >>> country was a "poorly designed amnesty" plan >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/01/25/pity-national-review-conservatives-for-d> >>> . >>> >>> Let's leave aside for the moment that by all accounts illegal >>> immigration into the United States by Mexicans country peaked in 2007 >>> <http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/unauthorized-immigrant-totals-rise-in-7-states-fall-in-14/ph_2014-11-18_unauthorized-immigration-05/>. >>> Should a political party be taken seriously when fears about people >>> choosing to come here to work and live is among its top concerns >>> (especially since immigrants, legal and otherwise, commit less crime >>> <http://reason.com/reasontv/2015/01/06/more-immigration> than natives)? >>> Immigration isn't simply part of America, it *is* America, which >>> explains why fully two-thirds of us >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-citizenshi> >>> (including at least 50 percent of Republicans) want to create some pathway >>> to legal status for illegals. Since then, of course, Trump and Republicans >>> have burnished their credentials as xenophobes by conflating religion and >>> race, and declaring that refugees from the same Middle East that >>> conservative and Republican policymakers have done so much to destroy and >>> wreak havoc on should not be allowed to enter the United States. Here too >>> the Republican brain trust (such as it is) is divided against itself, as >>> it's chided Trump for not being harsh enough or war-like enough or >>> personally dedicated to a Weekly Standard-style foreign policy of military >>> aggression. >>> >>> When it comes to social issues, the Republican Party has spent the past >>> several decades warring against abortion (even as its incidence has >>> declined, along with declines in rates of youth sex and unwanted >>> pregnancies >>> <http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-abortion-rate-is-falling-because-fewer-women-are-getting-pregnant/> >>> too) and "homosexual agenda" and pimping for the drug war that has managed >>> to turn the United States into the world's largest jailer nation. Even as >>> Americans of all stripes are rethinking the stupidity of putting more and >>> more people in jail, the party's vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence >>> told Indiana residents this year in his State of the State Address that he >>> was " leaning into the drug war >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/12/meet-mike-pence-possible-donald-trump-vi>" >>> and increasing mandatory minimums for various drug-related activity. Being >>> anti-abortion and scared of gays and in favor of the drug war are central >>> to the conservative movement. These are not the concerns of a party with a >>> future. They are the issues of a party that is terrified of a present that >>> has escaped its understanding. Forget about thinking about the future. The >>> Republican Party with its ritual incantation of the traditional family and >>> normalcy or whatever, isn't even living in the present any more. >>> >>> When it comes to economic policy, Trump (like Hillary Clinton, to be >>> sure) stands adamantly against the free-er trade that is articulated in >>> trade deals such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the North American >>> Free Trade Agreement. Neither of these things is perfect but we can say >>> with certainty that NAFTA, which created 25 million net jobs in the 15 >>> years after it passed, was better than the status quo it replaced. What are >>> non-Trump conservatives positing in the place of TPP? Nothing really, other >>> than shifting the conversation to how China must be hemmed in a rising >>> global economic and military power. >>> >>> The greatest failure of the Republican Party in recent memory was the >>> Bush presidency <http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275512887811775> >>> which was perpetrated with virtually total support of a Republican Congress >>> and the conservative commentariat at the time. Bush presided over a 50 >>> percent increase in federal spending, mired the country in two wars that >>> were failures both in conception and prosecution, increased major >>> regulatory structures and thenas the door was hitting his ass on the way >>> outbailed out the financial industry and the auto industry, claiming >>> nonsensically that the only way to save capitalism was to embrace >>> socialism. Channeling the "destroy the village in order to save it" logic >>> of the war he worked so hard to avoid fighting in, Bush actually said, " >>> I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2008/12/16/ive-abandoned-free-market-prin>." >>> The 2008 GOP presidential nominee, John McCain, signed TARP and all the >>> other related legislation, as did his Democratic rival, Barack Obama. Those >>> of us who opposed bank bailoutslibertarians mostly, and some lefties >>> toowere called nihilistic for wanting to business to rise and fall on >>> their performance in the market. The conservative-Republican position was >>> in favor of bailouts, with pundits such as National Review editor Rich >>> Lowry and the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal defending Bush's >>> incoherent position. In The New York Times, David Brooks said the >>> congressmen who initially voted down TARP were staging a "revolt of the >>> nihilists." >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/opinion/30brooks.html?_r=0> >>> >>> But after eight years of a supposedly conservative Republican government >>> that increased spending on everything by 50 percent in real dollars, >>> creating whole new entitlements such as free or cheap drugs even for >>> wealthy seniors, consolidated federal control of education funding via No >>> Child Left Behind, pushed a full-employment act for accountants known as >>> Sarbanes-Oxley, an energy bill that lead to the phase-out of incandescent >>> lightbulbs <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pNKz7iOaLE>, created a new >>> cabinet agency and, perhaps most devastatingly, entered willingly not just >>> into failed military interventions but secretly built a surveillance state >>> anathema to the history and ethos of our country. >>> >>> So forget Trump burning the mother down this week. The GOP has been in >>> ashes for most of the 21st century because it has never faced up to just >>> how awful it behaved when it had power. It was the failure and the fraud of >>> the Bush years that destroyed the GOP and the broader conservative movement >>> by making it impossible to reconcile the vast difference between their >>> generic rhetoric about smaller government and individual freedom on the one >>> hand and the actual actions of a GOP majority on the other. >>> >>> In the years since Bush retreated from public life and started painting >>> David Hockney-style bathroom art >>> <http://www.chron.com/life/article/Which-of-George-W-Bush-s-paintings-is-your-5885691.php#photo-4364385>, >>> conservatives have not seriously grappled with what the GOP did the last >>> time it controlled the federal government. Rather than look inward, confess >>> their sins, and work for atonement with the American people, they instead >>> sounded the alarms about Barack Obama and the creeping socialism that >>> ultimately was not so different from what they themselves had recently >>> signed off on. Rather than face up to the party's complete abdication of >>> serious reflection and engagement with an increasingly libertarian >>> sensibility growing in America that they might contribute to, it was more >>> than enough to say that Obamacare would gut Medicare instead of, you know, >>> actually pushing through any sort of health care reform that would actually >>> allow markets to develop and flourish. It was more important to claim the >>> Obama and the Democrats weren't war-like enough, even as they continued the >>> ruinous foreign policy created under Bush. It was enough to stamp their >>> feet about the rise of post-gender and post-sexual-orinetation America and >>> instead have moral lepers like Newt Gingrich talk about the sanctity of >>> traditional marriage. >>> >>> The lack of focus and seriousness in the Republican Party is what >>> created the conditions for Donald Trump to risein a crowd of 17 >>> candidates, including more than a few who were serious people and might >>> have made excellent presidents. To be sure, the clown show that is now upon >>> usthe Republican Party has nominated a man to be president who has >>> absolutely zero experience in public office!will accelerate the demise of >>> today's Republican Party. So will his plan to increase spending as a >>> percentage of GDP from a historically high 22.1 percent to 22.5 percent >>> over the next decade (for contrast, Hillary Clinton wants to raise it only >>> a little more than Trump, to 22.7 percent). Here we are, nearly 20 years >>> into a century in which fewer Americans have confidence in major >>> institutions than ever and want the government to do less and spend less >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/22/the-libertarian-moment-is-everywhere-aro>. >>> And the Republican nomineechanneling the most recent Republican president >>> and his own partywants to jack up spending even more and plainly use the >>> government to bully any individuals and groups that bug him. This, in a >>> country where according to Gallup >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/08/the-libertarian-moment-is-so-over-that-l>, >>> socially tolerant and fiscally responsible libertarians comprise the >>> single-largest ideological group in the country, bigger than conservatives, >>> liberals, and populists. Good luck with all that, GOP. >>> >>> There are good reasons to believe that whatever ultimately replaces this >>> version of the Republican Party may well be better, especially if the GOP >>> channels the energy and appeal and future orientation of its >>> libertarian-leaning members such as Rand Paul, Jeff Flake, Mike Lee, Thomas >>> Massie, Justin Amash, and a few others. But until conservatives and >>> Republicans admit that they have brought this on themselves through their >>> unwillingness to propose policies that match the libertarian rhetoric they >>> mumble like bored altar boys saying the Rosarynothing will stir in the >>> ashes, either here in Cleveland or beyond. >>> >>> http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/18/the-rnc-isnt-a-convention-its-a-wake >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
