The article is somewhat accurate the Republican party is dividing into what I believe will be two distinct factions. I think the establishment globalist really threw down the gauntlet coming out so strongly against Trump. And I don't see a logical path and I stress logical to any reconciliation.
On Jul 18, 2016 9:38 PM, "Keith In Tampa" <[email protected]> wrote: > <Grin>! > > Good Answer! > > > > On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:58 PM, 'Perplexed' via PoliticalForum < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Thank you for the input from the Libertarian kiddy table. I suppose it's >> much easier to criticize other parties when you never win elections, lol. >> >> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 9:41:42 PM UTC-4, KeithInTampa wrote: >>> >>> Obviously you Michael, (for posting this) and literally clueless Nick >>> Gillespie aren't watching the Republican National Convention! >>> >>> Anyone who watched the two surviving Benghazi soldiers tonight in >>> Cleveland could not support Hil Clinton unless they are a traitor..... >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is all about >>>> shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot even pretend >>>> anymore to stand for any of those things. *Jul. 18, 2016 >>>> >>>> *The RNC Isn't a Convention, It's a Wake * >>>> *Cleveland is where the GOP as we know it is going to die. *Nick >>>> Gillespie >>>> >>>> Reason TV, Todd KraininThe Republican Party, conservatives, and >>>> certainly Donald Trump may not fully understand it yet, but they are >>>> meeting in Cleveland not to chart the future of the GOP but to host its >>>> funeral. >>>> >>>> The Republican Party and the larger conservative movement for which it >>>> has stood since the days of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan is dead but >>>> not yet buried. A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is >>>> all about shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot even >>>> pretend anymore to stand for any of those things. As important, it hasn't >>>> been serious about governing for a very long time. Remember just how >>>> terrible and world-ending they said Obamacare was back in 2009 and 2010? >>>> They weren't wrong and yet it took the Republicans, despite holding >>>> congressional power for most of the 21st century, until June of this year >>>> to roll out an actual alternative that certainly wasn't worth the wait >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/28/the-gops-new-health-care-plan-shows-that> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Before whatever Trumpian display of narcissism, delusion, and disdain >>>> for actual knowledge of policy and process clicks into high gear in >>>> Cleveland over the next few days, it's worth taking stock of what the >>>> Republican Party has become. Trump is not the cause of its collapse but an >>>> effect of utter failure of Republicans to deliver even partly on their >>>> promises over the past several decades. Republicans and conservatives have >>>> officially elevated atavistic tribal allegiances to the most important >>>> place possible in their causes. While Trump famously and disturbingly >>>> called out Mexicans at the start of his speech announcing his candidacy >>>> last year, his dyed-in-the-wool conserative critics actually attacked him >>>> for not *being tough enough* on immigration. National Review, in its >>>> house editorial laying out the case against Trump, didn't conjure the >>>> ghosts of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush in 1980 arguing over who would >>>> do more to legalize and help illegals gain a legitimate place in our >>>> country >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/20/the-gops-35-year-devolution-on-immigrati>, >>>> they said the Trump's plan to remove 11 or 12 million people from the >>>> country was a "poorly designed amnesty" plan >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/01/25/pity-national-review-conservatives-for-d> >>>> . >>>> >>>> Let's leave aside for the moment that by all accounts illegal >>>> immigration into the United States by Mexicans country peaked in 2007 >>>> <http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/unauthorized-immigrant-totals-rise-in-7-states-fall-in-14/ph_2014-11-18_unauthorized-immigration-05/>. >>>> Should a political party be taken seriously when fears about people >>>> choosing to come here to work and live is among its top concerns >>>> (especially since immigrants, legal and otherwise, commit less crime >>>> <http://reason.com/reasontv/2015/01/06/more-immigration> than >>>> natives)? Immigration isn't simply part of America, it *is* America, >>>> which explains why fully two-thirds of us >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-citizenshi> >>>> (including at least 50 percent of Republicans) want to create some pathway >>>> to legal status for illegals. Since then, of course, Trump and Republicans >>>> have burnished their credentials as xenophobes by conflating religion and >>>> race, and declaring that refugees from the same Middle East that >>>> conservative and Republican policymakers have done so much to destroy and >>>> wreak havoc on should not be allowed to enter the United States. Here too >>>> the Republican brain trust (such as it is) is divided against itself, as >>>> it's chided Trump for not being harsh enough or war-like enough or >>>> personally dedicated to a Weekly Standard-style foreign policy of military >>>> aggression. >>>> >>>> When it comes to social issues, the Republican Party has spent the past >>>> several decades warring against abortion (even as its incidence has >>>> declined, along with declines in rates of youth sex and unwanted >>>> pregnancies >>>> <http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-abortion-rate-is-falling-because-fewer-women-are-getting-pregnant/> >>>> too) and "homosexual agenda" and pimping for the drug war that has managed >>>> to turn the United States into the world's largest jailer nation. Even as >>>> Americans of all stripes are rethinking the stupidity of putting more and >>>> more people in jail, the party's vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence >>>> told Indiana residents this year in his State of the State Address that he >>>> was " leaning into the drug war >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/12/meet-mike-pence-possible-donald-trump-vi>" >>>> and increasing mandatory minimums for various drug-related activity. Being >>>> anti-abortion and scared of gays and in favor of the drug war are central >>>> to the conservative movement. These are not the concerns of a party with a >>>> future. They are the issues of a party that is terrified of a present that >>>> has escaped its understanding. Forget about thinking about the future. The >>>> Republican Party with its ritual incantation of the traditional family and >>>> normalcy or whatever, isn't even living in the present any more. >>>> >>>> When it comes to economic policy, Trump (like Hillary Clinton, to be >>>> sure) stands adamantly against the free-er trade that is articulated in >>>> trade deals such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the North American >>>> Free Trade Agreement. Neither of these things is perfect but we can say >>>> with certainty that NAFTA, which created 25 million net jobs in the 15 >>>> years after it passed, was better than the status quo it replaced. What are >>>> non-Trump conservatives positing in the place of TPP? Nothing really, other >>>> than shifting the conversation to how China must be hemmed in a rising >>>> global economic and military power. >>>> >>>> The greatest failure of the Republican Party in recent memory was the >>>> Bush presidency <http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275512887811775> >>>> which was perpetrated with virtually total support of a Republican Congress >>>> and the conservative commentariat at the time. Bush presided over a 50 >>>> percent increase in federal spending, mired the country in two wars that >>>> were failures both in conception and prosecution, increased major >>>> regulatory structures and thenas the door was hitting his ass on the way >>>> outbailed out the financial industry and the auto industry, claiming >>>> nonsensically that the only way to save capitalism was to embrace >>>> socialism. Channeling the "destroy the village in order to save it" logic >>>> of the war he worked so hard to avoid fighting in, Bush actually said, " >>>> I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2008/12/16/ive-abandoned-free-market-prin>." >>>> The 2008 GOP presidential nominee, John McCain, signed TARP and all the >>>> other related legislation, as did his Democratic rival, Barack Obama. Those >>>> of us who opposed bank bailoutslibertarians mostly, and some lefties >>>> toowere called nihilistic for wanting to business to rise and fall on >>>> their performance in the market. The conservative-Republican position was >>>> in favor of bailouts, with pundits such as National Review editor Rich >>>> Lowry and the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal defending Bush's >>>> incoherent position. In The New York Times, David Brooks said the >>>> congressmen who initially voted down TARP were staging a "revolt of >>>> the nihilists." >>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/opinion/30brooks.html?_r=0> >>>> >>>> But after eight years of a supposedly conservative Republican >>>> government that increased spending on everything by 50 percent in real >>>> dollars, creating whole new entitlements such as free or cheap drugs even >>>> for wealthy seniors, consolidated federal control of education funding via >>>> No Child Left Behind, pushed a full-employment act for accountants known as >>>> Sarbanes-Oxley, an energy bill that lead to the phase-out of incandescent >>>> lightbulbs <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pNKz7iOaLE>, created a >>>> new cabinet agency and, perhaps most devastatingly, entered willingly not >>>> just into failed military interventions but secretly built a surveillance >>>> state anathema to the history and ethos of our country. >>>> >>>> So forget Trump burning the mother down this week. The GOP has been in >>>> ashes for most of the 21st century because it has never faced up to just >>>> how awful it behaved when it had power. It was the failure and the fraud of >>>> the Bush years that destroyed the GOP and the broader conservative movement >>>> by making it impossible to reconcile the vast difference between their >>>> generic rhetoric about smaller government and individual freedom on the one >>>> hand and the actual actions of a GOP majority on the other. >>>> >>>> In the years since Bush retreated from public life and started painting >>>> David Hockney-style bathroom art >>>> <http://www.chron.com/life/article/Which-of-George-W-Bush-s-paintings-is-your-5885691.php#photo-4364385>, >>>> conservatives have not seriously grappled with what the GOP did the last >>>> time it controlled the federal government. Rather than look inward, confess >>>> their sins, and work for atonement with the American people, they instead >>>> sounded the alarms about Barack Obama and the creeping socialism that >>>> ultimately was not so different from what they themselves had recently >>>> signed off on. Rather than face up to the party's complete abdication of >>>> serious reflection and engagement with an increasingly libertarian >>>> sensibility growing in America that they might contribute to, it was more >>>> than enough to say that Obamacare would gut Medicare instead of, you know, >>>> actually pushing through any sort of health care reform that would actually >>>> allow markets to develop and flourish. It was more important to claim the >>>> Obama and the Democrats weren't war-like enough, even as they continued the >>>> ruinous foreign policy created under Bush. It was enough to stamp their >>>> feet about the rise of post-gender and post-sexual-orinetation America and >>>> instead have moral lepers like Newt Gingrich talk about the sanctity of >>>> traditional marriage. >>>> >>>> The lack of focus and seriousness in the Republican Party is what >>>> created the conditions for Donald Trump to risein a crowd of 17 >>>> candidates, including more than a few who were serious people and might >>>> have made excellent presidents. To be sure, the clown show that is now upon >>>> usthe Republican Party has nominated a man to be president who has >>>> absolutely zero experience in public office!will accelerate the demise of >>>> today's Republican Party. So will his plan to increase spending as a >>>> percentage of GDP from a historically high 22.1 percent to 22.5 percent >>>> over the next decade (for contrast, Hillary Clinton wants to raise it only >>>> a little more than Trump, to 22.7 percent). Here we are, nearly 20 years >>>> into a century in which fewer Americans have confidence in major >>>> institutions than ever and want the government to do less and spend >>>> less >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/22/the-libertarian-moment-is-everywhere-aro>. >>>> And the Republican nomineechanneling the most recent Republican president >>>> and his own partywants to jack up spending even more and plainly use the >>>> government to bully any individuals and groups that bug him. This, in a >>>> country where according to Gallup >>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/08/the-libertarian-moment-is-so-over-that-l>, >>>> socially tolerant and fiscally responsible libertarians comprise the >>>> single-largest ideological group in the country, bigger than conservatives, >>>> liberals, and populists. Good luck with all that, GOP. >>>> >>>> There are good reasons to believe that whatever ultimately replaces >>>> this version of the Republican Party may well be better, especially if the >>>> GOP channels the energy and appeal and future orientation of its >>>> libertarian-leaning members such as Rand Paul, Jeff Flake, Mike Lee, Thomas >>>> Massie, Justin Amash, and a few others. But until conservatives and >>>> Republicans admit that they have brought this on themselves through their >>>> unwillingness to propose policies that match the libertarian rhetoric they >>>> mumble like bored altar boys saying the Rosarynothing will stir in the >>>> ashes, either here in Cleveland or beyond. >>>> >>>> http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/18/the-rnc-isnt-a-convention-its-a-wake >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>>> >>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>>> * It's active and moderated. 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Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. 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