Hey Geoffrey! As is typical, the far left, Anti-Republican/Anti-Trump media is going to exploit this, but I don't think it was as bad today as what the media is making of the #NeverTrump antics this afternoon...
Moreover, (and agree with you about the split between the Globalist/Rockefellerian/Establishment/Elitist faction of the Republican Party, and the conservative, "Grass-Roots" supporters); but I tend to believe that for the most part, the Republican Party will come out of the Convention more unified than we were last week.....Personally, I have no use for the Globalist faction and to me, they're no different than far left liberal Democrats. On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 10:56 PM, geoffrey theist <[email protected]> wrote: > The article is somewhat accurate the Republican party is dividing into > what I believe will be two distinct factions. I think the establishment > globalist really threw down the gauntlet coming out so strongly against > Trump. And I don't see a logical path and I stress logical to any > reconciliation. > > On Jul 18, 2016 9:38 PM, "Keith In Tampa" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> <Grin>! >> >> Good Answer! >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 9:58 PM, 'Perplexed' via PoliticalForum < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> Thank you for the input from the Libertarian kiddy table. I suppose it's >>> much easier to criticize other parties when you never win elections, lol. >>> >>> On Monday, July 18, 2016 at 9:41:42 PM UTC-4, KeithInTampa wrote: >>>> >>>> Obviously you Michael, (for posting this) and literally clueless Nick >>>> Gillespie aren't watching the Republican National Convention! >>>> >>>> Anyone who watched the two surviving Benghazi soldiers tonight in >>>> Cleveland could not support Hil Clinton unless they are a traitor..... >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, MJ <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is all about >>>>> shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot even pretend >>>>> anymore to stand for any of those things. *Jul. 18, 2016 >>>>> >>>>> *The RNC Isn't a Convention, It's a Wake * >>>>> *Cleveland is where the GOP as we know it is going to die. *Nick >>>>> Gillespie >>>>> >>>>> Reason TV, Todd KraininThe Republican Party, conservatives, and >>>>> certainly Donald Trump may not fully understand it yet, but they are >>>>> meeting in Cleveland not to chart the future of the GOP but to host its >>>>> funeral. >>>>> >>>>> The Republican Party and the larger conservative movement for which it >>>>> has stood since the days of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan is dead but >>>>> not yet buried. A party whose rhetoric (if never its actual policies) is >>>>> all about shrinking the size, scope, and spending of government cannot >>>>> even >>>>> pretend anymore to stand for any of those things. As important, it hasn't >>>>> been serious about governing for a very long time. Remember just how >>>>> terrible and world-ending they said Obamacare was back in 2009 and 2010? >>>>> They weren't wrong and yet it took the Republicans, despite holding >>>>> congressional power for most of the 21st century, until June of this year >>>>> to roll out an actual alternative that certainly wasn't worth the wait >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/06/28/the-gops-new-health-care-plan-shows-that> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Before whatever Trumpian display of narcissism, delusion, and disdain >>>>> for actual knowledge of policy and process clicks into high gear in >>>>> Cleveland over the next few days, it's worth taking stock of what the >>>>> Republican Party has become. Trump is not the cause of its collapse but an >>>>> effect of utter failure of Republicans to deliver even partly on their >>>>> promises over the past several decades. Republicans and conservatives have >>>>> officially elevated atavistic tribal allegiances to the most important >>>>> place possible in their causes. While Trump famously and disturbingly >>>>> called out Mexicans at the start of his speech announcing his candidacy >>>>> last year, his dyed-in-the-wool conserative critics actually attacked him >>>>> for not *being tough enough* on immigration. National Review, in its >>>>> house editorial laying out the case against Trump, didn't conjure the >>>>> ghosts of Ronald Reagan and George HW Bush in 1980 arguing over who would >>>>> do more to legalize and help illegals gain a legitimate place in our >>>>> country >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/20/the-gops-35-year-devolution-on-immigrati>, >>>>> they said the Trump's plan to remove 11 or 12 million people from the >>>>> country was a "poorly designed amnesty" plan >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/01/25/pity-national-review-conservatives-for-d> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> Let's leave aside for the moment that by all accounts illegal >>>>> immigration into the United States by Mexicans country peaked in 2007 >>>>> <http://www.pewhispanic.org/2014/11/18/unauthorized-immigrant-totals-rise-in-7-states-fall-in-14/ph_2014-11-18_unauthorized-immigration-05/>. >>>>> Should a political party be taken seriously when fears about people >>>>> choosing to come here to work and live is among its top concerns >>>>> (especially since immigrants, legal and otherwise, commit less crime >>>>> <http://reason.com/reasontv/2015/01/06/more-immigration> than >>>>> natives)? Immigration isn't simply part of America, it *is* America, >>>>> which explains why fully two-thirds of us >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/08/12/two-thirds-of-americans-favor-citizenshi> >>>>> (including at least 50 percent of Republicans) want to create some pathway >>>>> to legal status for illegals. Since then, of course, Trump and Republicans >>>>> have burnished their credentials as xenophobes by conflating religion and >>>>> race, and declaring that refugees from the same Middle East that >>>>> conservative and Republican policymakers have done so much to destroy and >>>>> wreak havoc on should not be allowed to enter the United States. Here too >>>>> the Republican brain trust (such as it is) is divided against itself, as >>>>> it's chided Trump for not being harsh enough or war-like enough or >>>>> personally dedicated to a Weekly Standard-style foreign policy of military >>>>> aggression. >>>>> >>>>> When it comes to social issues, the Republican Party has spent the >>>>> past several decades warring against abortion (even as its incidence has >>>>> declined, along with declines in rates of youth sex and unwanted >>>>> pregnancies >>>>> <http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-abortion-rate-is-falling-because-fewer-women-are-getting-pregnant/> >>>>> too) and "homosexual agenda" and pimping for the drug war that has managed >>>>> to turn the United States into the world's largest jailer nation. Even as >>>>> Americans of all stripes are rethinking the stupidity of putting more and >>>>> more people in jail, the party's vice-presidential candidate Mike Pence >>>>> told Indiana residents this year in his State of the State Address that he >>>>> was " leaning into the drug war >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/12/meet-mike-pence-possible-donald-trump-vi>" >>>>> and increasing mandatory minimums for various drug-related activity. Being >>>>> anti-abortion and scared of gays and in favor of the drug war are central >>>>> to the conservative movement. These are not the concerns of a party with a >>>>> future. They are the issues of a party that is terrified of a present that >>>>> has escaped its understanding. Forget about thinking about the future. The >>>>> Republican Party with its ritual incantation of the traditional family and >>>>> normalcy or whatever, isn't even living in the present any more. >>>>> >>>>> When it comes to economic policy, Trump (like Hillary Clinton, to be >>>>> sure) stands adamantly against the free-er trade that is articulated in >>>>> trade deals such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership and the North American >>>>> Free Trade Agreement. Neither of these things is perfect but we can say >>>>> with certainty that NAFTA, which created 25 million net jobs in the 15 >>>>> years after it passed, was better than the status quo it replaced. What >>>>> are >>>>> non-Trump conservatives positing in the place of TPP? Nothing really, >>>>> other >>>>> than shifting the conversation to how China must be hemmed in a rising >>>>> global economic and military power. >>>>> >>>>> The greatest failure of the Republican Party in recent memory was the >>>>> Bush presidency <http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275512887811775> >>>>> which was perpetrated with virtually total support of a Republican >>>>> Congress >>>>> and the conservative commentariat at the time. Bush presided over a 50 >>>>> percent increase in federal spending, mired the country in two wars that >>>>> were failures both in conception and prosecution, increased major >>>>> regulatory structures and thenas the door was hitting his ass on the way >>>>> outbailed out the financial industry and the auto industry, claiming >>>>> nonsensically that the only way to save capitalism was to embrace >>>>> socialism. Channeling the "destroy the village in order to save it" logic >>>>> of the war he worked so hard to avoid fighting in, Bush actually said, " >>>>> I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2008/12/16/ive-abandoned-free-market-prin>." >>>>> The 2008 GOP presidential nominee, John McCain, signed TARP and all the >>>>> other related legislation, as did his Democratic rival, Barack Obama. >>>>> Those >>>>> of us who opposed bank bailoutslibertarians mostly, and some lefties >>>>> toowere called nihilistic for wanting to business to rise and fall on >>>>> their performance in the market. The conservative-Republican position was >>>>> in favor of bailouts, with pundits such as National Review editor Rich >>>>> Lowry and the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal defending Bush's >>>>> incoherent position. In The New York Times, David Brooks said the >>>>> congressmen who initially voted down TARP were staging a "revolt of >>>>> the nihilists." >>>>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/opinion/30brooks.html?_r=0> >>>>> >>>>> But after eight years of a supposedly conservative Republican >>>>> government that increased spending on everything by 50 percent in real >>>>> dollars, creating whole new entitlements such as free or cheap drugs even >>>>> for wealthy seniors, consolidated federal control of education funding via >>>>> No Child Left Behind, pushed a full-employment act for accountants known >>>>> as >>>>> Sarbanes-Oxley, an energy bill that lead to the phase-out of incandescent >>>>> lightbulbs <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pNKz7iOaLE>, created a >>>>> new cabinet agency and, perhaps most devastatingly, entered willingly not >>>>> just into failed military interventions but secretly built a surveillance >>>>> state anathema to the history and ethos of our country. >>>>> >>>>> So forget Trump burning the mother down this week. The GOP has been in >>>>> ashes for most of the 21st century because it has never faced up to just >>>>> how awful it behaved when it had power. It was the failure and the fraud >>>>> of >>>>> the Bush years that destroyed the GOP and the broader conservative >>>>> movement >>>>> by making it impossible to reconcile the vast difference between their >>>>> generic rhetoric about smaller government and individual freedom on the >>>>> one >>>>> hand and the actual actions of a GOP majority on the other. >>>>> >>>>> In the years since Bush retreated from public life and started >>>>> painting David Hockney-style bathroom art >>>>> <http://www.chron.com/life/article/Which-of-George-W-Bush-s-paintings-is-your-5885691.php#photo-4364385>, >>>>> conservatives have not seriously grappled with what the GOP did the last >>>>> time it controlled the federal government. Rather than look inward, >>>>> confess >>>>> their sins, and work for atonement with the American people, they instead >>>>> sounded the alarms about Barack Obama and the creeping socialism that >>>>> ultimately was not so different from what they themselves had recently >>>>> signed off on. Rather than face up to the party's complete abdication of >>>>> serious reflection and engagement with an increasingly libertarian >>>>> sensibility growing in America that they might contribute to, it was more >>>>> than enough to say that Obamacare would gut Medicare instead of, you know, >>>>> actually pushing through any sort of health care reform that would >>>>> actually >>>>> allow markets to develop and flourish. It was more important to claim the >>>>> Obama and the Democrats weren't war-like enough, even as they continued >>>>> the >>>>> ruinous foreign policy created under Bush. It was enough to stamp their >>>>> feet about the rise of post-gender and post-sexual-orinetation America and >>>>> instead have moral lepers like Newt Gingrich talk about the sanctity of >>>>> traditional marriage. >>>>> >>>>> The lack of focus and seriousness in the Republican Party is what >>>>> created the conditions for Donald Trump to risein a crowd of 17 >>>>> candidates, including more than a few who were serious people and might >>>>> have made excellent presidents. To be sure, the clown show that is now >>>>> upon >>>>> usthe Republican Party has nominated a man to be president who has >>>>> absolutely zero experience in public office!will accelerate the demise of >>>>> today's Republican Party. So will his plan to increase spending as a >>>>> percentage of GDP from a historically high 22.1 percent to 22.5 percent >>>>> over the next decade (for contrast, Hillary Clinton wants to raise it only >>>>> a little more than Trump, to 22.7 percent). Here we are, nearly 20 years >>>>> into a century in which fewer Americans have confidence in major >>>>> institutions than ever and want the government to do less and spend >>>>> less >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/22/the-libertarian-moment-is-everywhere-aro>. >>>>> And the Republican nomineechanneling the most recent Republican president >>>>> and his own partywants to jack up spending even more and plainly use the >>>>> government to bully any individuals and groups that bug him. This, in a >>>>> country where according to Gallup >>>>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/03/08/the-libertarian-moment-is-so-over-that-l>, >>>>> socially tolerant and fiscally responsible libertarians comprise the >>>>> single-largest ideological group in the country, bigger than >>>>> conservatives, >>>>> liberals, and populists. Good luck with all that, GOP. >>>>> >>>>> There are good reasons to believe that whatever ultimately replaces >>>>> this version of the Republican Party may well be better, especially if the >>>>> GOP channels the energy and appeal and future orientation of its >>>>> libertarian-leaning members such as Rand Paul, Jeff Flake, Mike Lee, >>>>> Thomas >>>>> Massie, Justin Amash, and a few others. But until conservatives and >>>>> Republicans admit that they have brought this on themselves through their >>>>> unwillingness to propose policies that match the libertarian rhetoric they >>>>> mumble like bored altar boys saying the Rosarynothing will stir in the >>>>> ashes, either here in Cleveland or beyond. >>>>> >>>>> http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/18/the-rnc-isnt-a-convention-its-a-wake >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> -- >>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>>>> >>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > -- > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum > > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. > * Read the latest breaking news, and more. > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "PoliticalForum" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
