I agree that Hil Clinton, like her husband who utilized military force and a pseudo-war in Bosnia to divert attention from domestic troubles and cum stains on a dress; is more likely to engage in "Nation Building" more so than Donald Trump -- both will continue the failed US interventionist policy. the main reason I'm voting 3rd party again.
On Friday, August 12, 2016 at 2:57:14 PM UTC-5, KeithInTampa wrote: > > The conflict in my mind at least, is not so much about "Neo-Conservatism"; > (and I'll come back to the true definition of "Neo-Con"!) but more of an > elitist, globalist perspective. > > Donald Trump, with in my opinion conservative flair, promised and > guaranteed to rebuild our military; of which the Obama Administration has > literally gutted the last eight years. Our troop strength is nominal; our > naval fleet, although admittedly needing redesign for the New Millennium; > has also been gutted and not matching the demands of Pacific or Atlantic > needs; our Air Force is also severely lacking; stories of crewmen scavaging > for parts from junk yards and museums; and a lack of qualified pilots. Not > to mention the literal shift in military philosophy and the adoption of > tacics and theories by the Obama Administration; who now perceives "Climate > Change" as the number one threat to our national security. > > Although I agree that Hil Clinton, like her husband who utilized military > force and a pseudo-war in Bosnia to divert attention from domestic troubles > and cum stains on a dress; is more likely to engage in "Nation Building" > more so than Donald Trump; I don't think that there's any question that > Trump would be more suited to meeting the demands of the 21st Century than > Hil Clinton! > > By definition, (and maybe somewhat simplified!) all "Neo-Cons" are former > Democrats; the majority of which are usually Jewish and also usually place > Israel's foreign policy above and before the United States' foreign policy; > generally believe in a strong central government, with a "Federalist" > perspective; *e.g*.; a large federal government, with emphasis placed on > military versus social spending. . Neo-Con's were usually motivated to vote > Republican because of the Republican platform of a strong national defense. > Nothing has changed in my opinion with Donald Trump in that > regard....What has changed is the thought process of getting involved in > far flung controversies that have nothing to do with "our"; *e.g*.; the > United States' National interests; versus Israel's National interests..... > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 7:52 AM, geoffrey theist <[email protected] > <javascript:>> wrote: > >> The balance of power has changed in the middle east starting at bush >> 41.helped along by the neocons. why? I certainly don't know but the >> paradigm has shifted. Trump has played ball to a degree after all he's a >> deal maker.but Trump is a nationalist and this doesn't fit the noecon mold. >> Trump is trying to deal but I'm sure he know that he's dealing with snakes. >> >> On Aug 12, 2016 6:21 AM, "MJ" <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: >> >>> >>> August 7, 2016 >>> >>> *Why Neocons Can’t Stomach Trump * >>> *Neocons are jumping off the Republican ship for Hillary Clinton even >>> though Donald Trump has shifted their way on Israel and military spending. >>> The big reason is his resistance to a new Cold War with Russia, says JP >>> Sottile. *By JP Sottile >>> >>> Bill Kristol is downright *despondent* >>> <http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/2016-bill-kristol-republicans-conservative-movement-donald-trump-politics-214025> >>> >>> after his *failed search* >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/27/bill-kristol-and-a-bush-looking-libertar> >>> >>> for an alternative to Donald Trump. Max Boot is *indignant* >>> <http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/max-boot-anti-trump-foreign-policy> >>> about his “ *stupid* >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/opinion/how-the-stupid-party-created-donald-trump.html>” >>> >>> party’s willingness to ride a bragging bull into a delicate *China* >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDrfE9I8_hs> policy shop. And the >>> leading light of the first family of military interventionism *Robert >>> Kagan* >>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/there-is-something-very-wrong-with-donald-trump/2016/08/01/73809c72-57fe-11e6-831d-0324760ca856_story.html> >>> >>> is *actually lining up neoconservatives* >>> <https://theintercept.com/2016/07/25/robert-kagan-and-other-neocons-back-hillary-clinton/> >>> >>> behind the Democratic nominee for president of the United States. >>> >>> At the same time, the Democrats have become the party of bare-knuckled, >>> full-throated American Exceptionalism. That transformation was announced >>> with a *vein-popping zeal* >>> <http://reason.com/blog/2016/07/31/readwatch-the-scariest-speech-from-both> >>> by retired general and *wannabe motivation screamer* >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXsFwGA4VpM> John Allen at the >>> Democratic convention in the City of Brotherly Love. During his “speech,” a >>> few plaintive protests of “ *no more war* >>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/john-allens-speech-at-convention-met-with-usa-chants/2016/07/28/641a470e-5530-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_video.html>” >>> >>> were actually drowned-out by Democrats chanting “USA-USA-USA!” >>> >>> This is the same Democratic Party often criticized by Kagan & Co. as the >>> purveyors of timidity, flaccidity and moral perfidy. It’s not that >>> Democrats haven’t dropped bombs, dealt arms and overturned regimes. They >>> have. And they’ve even got the Peace Prize-winning *Obama-dropper* >>> <http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/07/06/the-numbers-in-obamas-drone-death-report-dont-add-up/> >>> >>> to prove it. But unlike enthusiastically belligerent Republicans, the Dems >>> are supposed to be the party that does it, but doesn’t really like to do it. >>> >>> But now, they’ve got Hillary Clinton. And she’s *weaponized* >>> <http://newsvandal.com/2014/06/hillary-clinton-and-the-weaponization-of-the-state-department/> >>> >>> the State Department. She *really likes* >>> <http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/07/27/hillary-the-hawk-a-history-clinton-2016-military-intervention-libya-iraq-syria/> >>> >>> regime change. And her nominating convention not only embraced the >>> military, but it sanctified the very Gold Star families that neocon-style >>> interventionism creates. It certainly *created the pain* >>> <http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2016/08/04/trump-khan-iraq-vote> of the >>> Khan family who lost their son in the * illegal* >>> <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/16/iraq.iraq> war in Iraq. >>> But the Dems didn’t mention that sad fact as they grabbed the flag away >>> from the Republicans. >>> >>> >>> *Truly Neo-confusing. *It kinda feels like reality has slipped off its >>> axis and we’ve landed on a *Bizarro World* >>> <http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Htrae> version of America. Democrats are >>> acting like Republicans. Pat Buchanan is championing the GOP’s “*Peace >>> Candidate* <http://buchanan.org/blog/trump-peace-candidate-125499>.” >>> And the neocons are fleeing from the party they’ve used like a geopolitical >>> cudgel for the better part of three decades. >>> >>> At first glance, it all makes sense. Trump captured the GOP nomination >>> in no small part by trashing two of the neocons’ favorite things ever the >>> Bush family and the Iraq War. He also suggested early on that he’d approach >>> the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as (gasp!) an honest >>> broker. Trump said he really wanted to “ *make that deal* >>> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-says-he-will-try-to-broker-israeli-palestinian-peace-deal/>.” >>> >>> Without irony, one-time *neocon wonderboy* >>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/11/18/neocons-make-rubio-their-favorite/> >>> Marco Rubio remarked that it isn’t a “ *real estate deal* >>> <http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/270866-rubio-to-trump-israel-palestinian-conflict-isnt-a-real>” >>> >>> when, in fact, that’s exactly what it is. >>> >>> But the ever-pliable Trump *quickly got religion* >>> <http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-palestinians-must-stop-terror-for-peace-deal/> >>> >>> on Israel. He did an *about-face* >>> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-israel-settlements_us_572a03ede4b096e9f08fc693>, >>> >>> marched into AIPAC’s annual confab, and* staked out a claim* >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQgDgMGuDI0> on the *reflexively >>> pro-Israel* >>> <http://nypost.com/2016/07/20/trump-is-plainly-the-best-bet-for-the-jews/> >>> side of the issue. But it wasn’t enough to assuage the angst of the GOP’s >>> forever-circling hawks. >>> >>> Frankly, nothing seems enough to sway the neocons in Donald’s direction. >>> But it’s not for lack of trying on Trump’s part. Really, he’s checked off >>> many of the boxes that make neocons smile. >>> >>> Trump wants a “yuuge” military … the biggest and baddest ever! So big, >>> that no one in a million years will ever challenge it. That sure sounds a >>> lot like Reagan’s “peace through strength.” Neocons do love Reagan. And, as >>> if on cue, the Kristol/Kagan-led “Foreign Policy Initiative” *just >>> posted* >>> <http://foreignpolicyi.org/content/fpi-bulletin-why-it%E2%80%99s-time-re-invest-us-military> >>> >>> a clarion call to spend more bucks to buy bigger bangs for an already >>> *gargantuan* >>> <https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/us-military-spending-vs-world/> >>> >>> military. Doesn’t that fit with Donald’s plan to spend defense dollars like >>> a drunken sailor? >>> >>> Maybe neocons don’t want the military to be *so big* that no one will >>> ever try anything. Maybe they want a few challenges here and there, just >>> for a little * creative destruction* >>> <http://www.alternet.org/story/15860/who_is_michael_ledeen> to keep the >>> world on its toes. But Trump’s right there with them. He wants to “*bomb >>> the shit* <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWejiXvd-P8>” out of ISIS. >>> And *he even said* >>> <http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/290115-trump-us-has-no-choice-but-to-bomb-isis-in-libya> >>> >>> America has “no choice but to bomb Libya” and “take out” the Islamic State. >>> >>> >>> *C’mon, Neocons … What’s Not to Like? *And how about Trump’s >>> Islamophobia? It sure seems *simpatico* >>> <https://lobelog.com/the-neocon-islamophobe-nexus-clarion-brings-together-perle-and-gaffney/> >>> >>> with the last two decades of neoconservative drum-beating. Trump repeatedly >>> uses the magic words “Radical Islamic Terrorism.” Can’t you just hear the >>> longing sighs coming out of the *American Enterprise Institute* >>> <http://thinkprogress.org/security/2012/06/01/493383/aei-islamophobia-rubin-spencer/> >>> ? >>> >>> He also wants to ban Muslims. Or “just” ban people coming from countries >>> where Muslims have committed terrorism. Who knows? Either way, the message >>> is “Muslims bad.” It even gave neocon bushwacker Frank Gaffney a serious >>> *man-crush* >>> <http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/12/08/donald-trump-frank-gaffney-islamophobia-poll/> >>> >>> on The Donald. >>> >>> To be fair, other less “fringy” neocons like Kristol have *repudiated* >>> <http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/08/media/donald-trump-muslim-ban-conservative-media/> >>> >>> the Muslim ban idea. But, as *filmmaker Robbie Martin* >>> <https://twitter.com/FluorescentGrey> showed in his just-completed >>> series on the neocons and their “*very heavy agenda* >>> <http://averyheavyagenda.blogspot.com/>,” even the most intellectually >>> renowned among them has engaged in the dangerous stereotyping of all >>> Muslims as terrorists. >>> >>> In fact, Martin featured a *frightening clip* >>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdcj4-2RePo> of two Kagans (Robert’s >>> dad Donald and his brother Fred) making the case that the U.S. military >>> should clean out the Occupied Territories in the aftermath of 9/11 because >>> radical Muslims and “the Arabs” are all basically the same. Oh, by the way, >>> they only respect brute force. So why not take advantage of the “New Pearl >>> Harbor” and show them all who’s boss? >>> >>> It’s kinda like the “dancing Muslims” Trump *and only Trump* >>> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/22/donald-trump/fact-checking-trumps-claim-thousands-new-jersey-ch/> >>> >>> saw celebrating the 9/11 attacks in New Jersey. Even if he didn’t see >>> them, or just conflated them with an *isolated incident* >>> <http://www.mediaite.com/online/this-is-the-footage-donald-trump-thinks-he-saw-on-911/> >>> >>> in East Jerusalem, what’s the difference? It’s all the same to him. >>> >>> Just like aggrieved and aggressive Muslims were all the same to the >>> Kagans on 9/11. Doesn’t that make Trump’s persistent suspicion of Muslims a >>> perfect match for the neoconservative wrecking crew? >>> >>> And then there’s the Iran nuclear deal, which Trump has relentlessly >>> criticized as being so bad that it’s downright *suspicious* >>> <http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/264598-trump-iran-deal-was-so-bad-its-suspicious>. >>> >>> He said he wants to “ *renegotiate* >>> <https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/04/04/donald-trump-is-right-about-tearing-up-the-iran-deal-says-a-leading-iranian-hard-liner/>” >>> >>> immediately after taking office. And he *wrongly claims* >>> <https://lobelog.com/trump-got-pretty-much-everything-wrong-about-the-iran-deal/> >>> >>> the deal is a fast-track to a nuclear-armed Iran (an error that puts him >>> squarely in the neocon camp). As a rule of thumb, he’s *livid* >>> <http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/trump-iran-video-money/2016/08/03/id/742028/> >>> >>> about all things related to Iran. So, what’s the problem? Why can’t the >>> neocons wrap their arms around Donald Trump? >>> >>> >>> *In a Word: Russia. *It’s framed as a troublesome “bromance” between >>> Vladimir Putin and Trump. Critics don’t like Trump’s comfort with a “ >>> *dictator* >>> <http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/3d281c11a96b4ad082fe88aa0db04305/Article_2016-07-27-US--DEM%202016-Convention-The%20Latest/id-4dd74d65754940aba8f481692dc73d28>” >>> >>> who, as Kagan’s wife Victoria Nuland *recently told* >>> <http://russialist.org/video-transcript-russian-violations-of-borders-treaties-and-human-rights-u-s-senate-testimony-by-assistant-secretary-victoria-nuland-russia-ukraine-syria-senate-video-nuland/> >>> >>> the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, engages in “aggression.” She’s >>> currently the assistant secretary of state for European and Eurasian >>> Affairs. She *basically managed* >>> <https://consortiumnews.com/2015/07/13/the-mess-that-nuland-made/> the >>> *2014 >>> coup* >>> <http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/05/chronology-of-the-ukrainian-coup/> >>> in Ukraine. And she’s outraged by Russian aggression in Ukraine. >>> >>> But she’s not bothered by her * husband’s role* >>> <http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/regime-change-trauma/> in pushing for >>> the most blatant and wanton act of aggression thus far this century the >>> unwarranted destruction of Iraq. Go figure. >>> >>> On the other hand, Putin has the *unmitigated gall* >>> <http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/4/russia-counters-us-nato-moves-eastern-europe-its-o/> >>> >>> to move military forces around *inside* the borders of *his own* >>> country. He’s * blamed* >>> <http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-clinton-idUSKCN10B0IX> >>> for hacking the Democratic Party despite a *lack of actual evidence* >>> <http://fair.org/home/nyt-leads-with-russia-hack-conspiracy-despite-no-evidence-in-next-to-last-paragraph/> >>> >>> and the NSA’s own *hacking hijinks* >>> <http://www.reuters.com/article/us-election-intelligence-commentary-idUSKCN10F1H5>. >>> >>> And he’s accused of “ *meddling* >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/world/europe/dnc-hack-russia.html>” >>> in U.S. elections a pretty rich accusation given America’s long history >>> of *surreptitious electioneering* >>> <http://original.antiwar.com/paul/2014/03/24/us-democracy-promotion-destroys-democracy-overseas/> >>> >>> around the world. >>> >>> There is *no doubt* >>> <http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin-quotes/index.html> >>> >>> that “Bad Vlad” likes Donald. And Donald *likes* >>> <http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/politics/donald-trump-praises-defends-vladimir-putin/> >>> >>> Vlad. But the real problem isn’t their bromance. This is about the >>> neoconservative desire to make sure the United States is the lone guarantor >>> of the geopolitical order. This is about Pax Americana. This is about >>> resurrecting the faded dream of a new American century. >>> >>> And what stands in the way of the type of the neocon dream of global >>> “full-spectrum dominance?” Russia’s nuclear arsenal. >>> >>> Russia is the only nation with an arsenal big enough to withstand the >>> subtle nuclear blackmail of America’s trillion-dollar nuclear “ >>> *upgrade* >>> <http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-02/us-begins-upgrading-its-nuclear-bomb-arsenal>.” >>> >>> That’s why *Russia is concerned* >>> <http://thebulletin.org/technical-concerns-why-russia-worries-about-missile-defense> >>> >>> about the *missile defense systems* >>> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nato-takes-control-of-us-built-missile-defense-shield_us_578009d5e4b0344d514f528b> >>> >>> arrayed on their border. Those systems can knock down retaliatory strikes, >>> thus making a first strike with *new nuclear cruise missiles* >>> <http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/881056/af-releases-request-for-proposal-for-nuclear-air-launched-cruise-missile-replac.aspx> >>> >>> at least theoretically possible. >>> >>> The United States is also using NATO expansion to *increasingly >>> encircle* >>> <http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/u-s-nato-troop-buildup-in-eastern-europe-to-counter-russians-is-largest-since-cold-war/> >>> >>> a nation that once was America’s geopolitical equal. That’s why Trump’s >>> criticism of America’s outsized support for NATO must’ve been the tipping >>> point from disdain to panic among *neocon* >>> <http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-boot-trump-russian-connection-20160725-snap-story.html> >>> >>> and *neoliberal* >>> <http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/madeleine-albright-trump-victory-putin-gift> >>> >>> interventionists alike. >>> >>> The oddity is that there does seem to be more than a passing affinity >>> between Trump and Putin. Trump’s *statements on Ukraine* >>> <http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/aug/04/what-you-need-know-about-donald-trump-russia-and-u/> >>> >>> would be easily dismissed if his *campaign manager Paul Manafort* >>> <http://www.politico.eu/article/trump-changed-views-on-ukraine-after-hiring-paul-manafort-campaign-manager-russia-vladimir-putin/> >>> >>> hadn’t *worked as a political consultant* >>> <http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/paul-manafort-ukraine-donald-trump.html> >>> >>> to the pre-Nuland leadership of Ukraine. And Trump’s statements on Crimea >>> might be written off if he’d release his taxes and end speculation of >>> financial ties to Putin’s regime. >>> >>> But the visceral reaction against his repeated calls for cooperation *“By >>> the way, wouldn’t it be great if we got along with Russia?”* >>> <http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/08/03/Trump-Slams-US-Military-Arms-He-Swoons-Over-Russian-Military> >>> >>> exposes the extent to which the entire foreign policy and political >>> establishments are squarely on the same page. They are angling for Cold War >>> 2.0, and Trump is the only major figure willing to challenge that orthodoxy. >>> >>> Unlike Hillary Clinton, of course, which brings the whole thing back to >>> the miasma of confusion hanging over this strange election. Hillary is *on >>> the neocon team* >>> <http://mondoweiss.net/2016/07/clinton-megadonor-islamophobic/> if >>> not in name, certainly in deed. She will “ *stand up* >>> <http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/10/13/hillary-clinton-democratic-debate-putin-bully-13.cnn>” >>> >>> to Bad Vlad. She’s targeted by Russian hackers because Putin prefers his “ >>> *unwitting >>> agent* >>> <http://www.politico.com/story/2016/08/michael-morell-endorses-clinton-226707>” >>> >>> Donald Trump. And Donald is, *according to an emerging narrative* >>> <http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/trumps-turn-toward-appeasement/493934/>, >>> >>> a latter-day Neville Chamberlain just inviting the Ruskies to take over the >>> Baltic States, Ukraine, and God knows what else. >>> >>> The greatest irony of all is that Trump catapulted over the neocons’ >>> preferred presidential options by slamming their pet project the War on >>> Iraq. Trump’s criticism of that war and the chaos it unleashed resonated >>> with the very voters the Neocons took for granted as pliable, >>> fear-responsive bumpkins. That left the neocons out in the cold just as >>> they were angling to trump the disorderly, hard-to-prosecute mess they call >>> “The Global War on Terror.” >>> >>> What they really want, and have always wanted, is to revive the greatest >>> war of all the Cold War. That’s the grand chessboard they yearn to play >>> on once again. The War on Terror was really just a stop-gap, like methadone >>> for imperialists. But now they’ve scored because it looks like the supposed >>> party of imperial intransigence is, under the guidance of Hillary Clinton, >>> poised to take the reins from a Trump-addled GOP. >>> >>> And if a *recent article in * >>> <http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.html> >>> *Der >>> Spiegel* >>> <http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/breedlove-network-sought-weapons-deliveries-for-ukraine-a-1104837.html> >>> >>> is right, Kagan’s wife Victoria has emerged as a candidate for the prized >>> position of secretary of state should Hillary win. If that comes to pass, >>> the neocons may not have succeeded in their initial plan for a new American >>> century, but they will have hastily completed their last-minute project for >>> a new Democratic Party. And that means this election isn’t that >>> Neo-confusing after all. >>> >>> >>> https://consortiumnews.com/2016/08/07/why-neocons-cant-stomach-trump/ >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >>> >>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "PoliticalForum" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> -- >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum >> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more. >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "PoliticalForum" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- -- Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PoliticalForum" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
