dick, I'm sorry what obligates me to agree with what you say is "the point"? There is an expiration date on the right to protest, free speech? I must speak out at a certain time or never at all? Who says?
I can't believe that anyone much over the age of 9 could possibye be shocked and/or outraged by the knowledge that politicians, of BOTH parties, lie their asses off on a routine basis. The primary goal of the government, the military, politicians and hopefull citizens is to protect and preserve the Constituion of the United States. If fact, i once took an oath to sacrifice my life if need be to "protect and preserve the Constituion of the United Staes against all enemies, both foreign or domestic". How the fuck did "playing to minorites" get involved here? I don't like the POTUS being in permanent campaigm mode either. How about one six year term and your out forever like Mexico does? No worrying about getting elected for a 2nd term. On May 10, 9:30 am, dick thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > I did. The whole point is that when the Democrats could have protested > the waterboarding practice they did not, in fact seemed to assume it was > A-OK. Now all of a sudden they are trying to say it is torture and they > knew nothing, nothing about it at all. The Sgt Schulz and the Capt > Renard ploys just won't work. The sheer hypocrisy is bad enough but to > lie on top of it as they have shows us just how unready they really are > to be seriously adult about protecting the country. Instead we get > these platitudes repeated all over and then when it comes to dealing > with the major job the feds should be dealing with they just add on > more and more playing to whatever "minorities" they can dredge up and > pass "resolutions" as to what they are going to do. When you combine > that with a chief executive who is in permanent campaign mode and is > telling us more of what he is going to do it makes a sad place for this > country to be in. > > What do you think of Pelosi and Rockefeller and whether they are telling > the truth or not. You seem to want someone else to respond to whatever > strawman you set up but not respond to the basic question of whether > Congress knew or not. You might also want to touch on whether you think > the CIA is doing what it should and whether finally the CIA and the FBI > should compare notes. The last Dem administration stopped that and we > see the result of what they wrought in that hole in the ground in lower > Manhattan. since the primary role of the federal govt is to protect the > country do you like the approach Bambi is taking on that? > > > > Hollywood wrote: > > dick, > > > That's nice. Would you now like to address my post? > > > On May 10, 12:15 am, dick thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> But the republicans are not lying about their having been briefed. The > >> democrats areand are trying to use this to railroad the lawyers who > >> wrote memos interpreting the law as they saw it when pres Bush asked for > >> an interpretation. Totally different thing. It is the games that the > >> democrats are trying to play that are so junior high school. They are > >> trying to get certain memos released and ones that show how involved > >> they were held back. This is the same type of thing that Sen Stevens > >> prosecutors did and the judge slapped them down for it. Release some > >> info and hold other info back and then lie about it. Starting to seem > >> like a real MO for the democrats these days. > > >> Hollywood wrote: > > >>> dick, > > >>> If it's NOT a crime, or at the VERY least highly unethical, what would > >>> be the big deal about not reporting and/or publically opossing it? > >>> You do realize that everything you are saying about the Democrats > >>> holds equally true for the Republicans that were also informed at the > >>> same time don't you? > > >>> I'm sorry, are we in junior high school? What's with the "loser" > >>> label? > > >>> On May 9, 11:00 pm, dick thompson <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>> Given the position of the people involved and the actions they could > >>>> have taken on the issue, it is more than their not reporting what you > >>>> choose to call a crime. It is that their not reporting it implied > >>>> strongly that they did not consider it a crime at all. Now they choose > >>>> to say I never got the briefing or since that option has been shown to > >>>> be a lie that they assumed it to be a future option rather than it > >>>> having been already done. That they were told it had been done to the > >>>> people we know were given waterboarding puts that to a lie as well. I > >>>> just wonder what else they will attempt to do to make it seem that they > >>>> were lily white on the issue. Everything they have said so far has been > >>>> shown to be a lie. > > >>>> The other problem is that at the time all these "terrible" things > >>>> happened this was not a crime and since waterboarding is a natural part > >>>> of the training of the Navy Seals that one looks to be a loser as > >>>> well. The congressmen are trying to twist the stories even more than > >>>> Clinton with his "depends on the definition of what is is" bit of > >>>> nonsense. Doubt that that will sell either. It appears that the public > >>>> is behind the CIA on this one and the crown princess of Botox looks to > >>>> be past her sell by date on the issue. > > >>>> Hollywood wrote: > > >>>>> bruce, > > >>>>> Sorry, but I don't get your point here. > > >>>>> You want to condemn people for NOT reporting a crime but you do not > >>>>> want to condemn or punish the people who actually committed the > >>>>> crime???? > > >>>>> On May 9, 10:00 pm, bruce majors <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>>>>> CIA memo cites 40 Congressional briefings on torture By Bill Van Auken > > >>>>>> A memo released Wednesday by Director of National Intelligence Dennis > >>>>>> Blair > >>>>>> lists 40 separate briefings beginning in September 2002 in which > >>>>>> leading > >>>>>> members of Congress were briefed by the CIA on the agency’s use of > >>>>>> “enhanced > >>>>>> interrogation techniques”—in plain words, torture. > > >>>>>> Before the revelations about the employment of such methods as > >>>>>> waterboarding > >>>>>> appeared in the media, none of these legislators, including leading > >>>>>> Democrats, objected to or publicly protested against what amounted to > >>>>>> war > >>>>>> crimes. > > >>>>>> Blair’s release of the document compiled by the CIA came in response > >>>>>> to a > >>>>>> request from Representative Pete Hoekstra of Michigan, the top > >>>>>> Republican on > >>>>>> the House intelligence committee. In a letter to Hoekstra, Blair > >>>>>> stated that > >>>>>> the memo “provides a straightforward account of the extent of > >>>>>> interaction > >>>>>> with the Congress on this issue.” > > >>>>>> Much of the media attention has focused on the role of House Speaker > >>>>>> Nancy > >>>>>> Pelosi (Democrat, California), who as the ranking Democrat on the House > >>>>>> intelligence committee was, together with Republican Representative > >>>>>> Porter > >>>>>> Goss, who went on to become director of the CIA, one of the first > >>>>>> members of > >>>>>> Congress to be briefed on the CIA’s torture tactics. > > >>>>>> The memo’s description of the briefing reads: “Briefing on EITs > >>>>>> [enhanced > >>>>>> interrogation techniques] on Abu Zubaydah, background on authorities, > >>>>>> and a > >>>>>> description of the particular EITs that have been employed.” > > >>>>>> Zubaydah, captured by the CIA in Pakistan in March 2002, was one of the > >>>>>> first “high-value” detainees subjected to waterboarding and other > >>>>>> forms of > >>>>>> torture. While the Bush administration grossly inflated Zubaydah’s > >>>>>> importance, the torture methods served to extract from him a false > >>>>>> statement > >>>>>> that Iraq was training Al Qaeda terrorists in the use of chemical > >>>>>> weapons. > >>>>>> The Bush administration had ordered the torture in large part to > >>>>>> obtain such > >>>>>> a phony confession in order to bolster its key pretext for launching > >>>>>> its war > >>>>>> of aggression against Iraq. > > >>>>>> The memo’s description of this initial briefing of Pelosi and Goss > >>>>>> contradicts Pelosi’s own account. Just last month, she claimed that > >>>>>> the CIA > >>>>>> “did not brief us that these enhanced interrogations were being used,” > >>>>>> but > >>>>>> merely informed the two intelligence committee leaders about “an array > >>>>>> of > >>>>>> interrogations that they might have at their disposal.” > > >>>>>> This claim is hardly credible. Why would the CIA brief two leading > >>>>>> members > >>>>>> of Congress on methods of torture in the abstract? And if they had > >>>>>> done so, > >>>>>> why didn’t Pelosi ask them whether these “techniques” were in fact > >>>>>> being > >>>>>> used on detainees captured on the “global war on terrorism”? > > >>>>>> Other briefings listed in the memo included one in February 2003 in > >>>>>> which > >>>>>> Republican Senator Pat Roberts and Democratic Senator John Rockefeller > >>>>>> had > >>>>>> the EITs “described in considerable detail,” including “how the water > >>>>>> board > >>>>>> was used.” > > >>>>>> In briefings held in September 2003, Roberts and Rockefeller, as well > >>>>>> as > >>>>>> Republican Congressman Goss and Pelosi’s successor on the House > >>>>>> intelligence > >>>>>> panel, California Democratic Congresswoman Jane Harmon, were given > >>>>>> slide > >>>>>> shows in which “non-enhanced and enhanced interrogation techniques were > >>>>>> named, described and compared on the same slide.” > > >>>>>> Subsequent briefings, which included Senator Harry Reid, now the > >>>>>> Democratic > >>>>>> Senate Majority Leader, and the other Democratic members of the Senate > >>>>>> Select Committee on Intelligence—Senators Carl Levin, Dianne > >>>>>> Feinstein, Evan > >>>>>> Bayh, Barbara Mikulski and Russ Feingold—heard presentations on > >>>>>> “waterboarding, diet manipulation, nudity, walling and stomach slap.” > > >>>>>> The content of the memo is hardly a revelation. In December 2007, the > >>>>>> *Washington > >>>>>> Post* reported that in 2002 briefings Pelosi and three other members of > >>>>>> Congress were “given a virtual tour of the CIA’s overseas detention > >>>>>> sites > >>>>>> and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to make prisoners > >>>>>> talk,” > >>>>>> including waterboarding. The *Post *added that while leading Democrats > >>>>>> subsequently denounced waterboarding as torture, “on that day, no > >>>>>> objections > >>>>>> were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA > >>>>>> to > >>>>>> push harder.” > > >>>>>> The patent aim of the congressional Republicans in requesting the > >>>>>> public > >>>>>> release of the record of these briefings is to > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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