The internet was still new. Palestinians were luring Israeli youth to cross into dangerous areas and killing them.
On May 15, 5:47�pm, Mark <[email protected]> wrote: > some sort of specification please.... > > > > > > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 4:42 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Where was it? Ramallah (sp?) where two Israeli soldiers strayed and > > were literally torn apart? Parties involved have to agree on terms. > > > On May 14, 9:16 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > rigs, > > > > Why should they? It's the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union. BTW, what > > > does the ACLU have to do with this post? > > > The concern here is breaking AMERICAN criminal laws and the UCMJ. > > > > On May 14, 7:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. > > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? > > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... > > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to avoid > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL interogator > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! > > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it appears > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he was > > > > > > told! > > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI agent > > > > > > > testifies > > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida > > captives > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and unreliable," > > and > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and others > > that > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. > > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA officials > > and > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the > > program's > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical abuse. > > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone to > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation methods > > that > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end game > > and > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. > > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in our > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. > > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in 2005 was > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle to > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and interrogation > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of techniques such > > as > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely > > considered > > > > > > > torture. > > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without resorting to > > > > > > > extreme methods. > > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the country, > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right, our > > laws > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are > > wrong." > > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which > > included a > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable intelligence > > that > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. > > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the subject > > next > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative > > Washington > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two classified > > CIA > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. > > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate > > Judiciary > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two documents and > > they > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. > > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public appraisal by a > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with > > suspected > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. > > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four > > Bush-era > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that included > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees into > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush officials > > should > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. > > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen where > > the > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at least one > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason for the > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. > > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force Reserve > > lawyer, > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the law but > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes produce > > valuable > > > > > > > information. > > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. > > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent > > replied. > > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. > > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of the > > first > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, 2001, > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, using > > the > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded > > valuable > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as the > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. > > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the interrogators - > > until > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan said. > > A > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a > > government > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They > > introduced > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation > > stopped, > > > > > > > Soufan said. > > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the dried-up > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the > > traditional > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. > > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. Sheldon > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's interrogations > > of > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to Osama > > bin > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate details > > and > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100 pages of > > > > > > > documents appear to show. > > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas over > > what > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA program. > > > > > > > Republicans say that documents call into question House Speaker > > Nancy > > > > > > > Pelosi's contention that she wasn't briefed about waterboarding. > > > > > > > > Zelikow called the CIA program "a collective failure, in which a > > > > > > > number of officials and members of Congress (and staffers), of > > both > > > > > > > parties, played a part." > > > > > > > > Zelikow wrote a classified February 2006 memo challenging the > > legal > > > > > > > reasoning of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel. > > The > > > > > > > White House responded by ordering copies of the memo destroyed, > > but > > > > > > > Zelikow said his six-page document has been retrieved from State > > > > > > > Department files and is undergoing declassification review. > > >http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/v-print/story/1047093.html > > > > > > > > The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing: > >http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3842-Hidequotedtext - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > Mark M. Kahle, �,www.filacoffee.com- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
