Thats not entirely true.... they operate under their own code just as your "founding fathers" who also fought for their religious freedoms (that was on the list....no??). They were considered traitors and the militia was considered terrorists........
On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 5:24 PM, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > That's the problem. Terrorists do not operate under law. > > On May 15, 6:04�pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > rigs, > > > > What the hell are you talking about? Americans have an obligation to > > obey American law, our troops are required to obey the UCMJ. What the > > hell does what terrorist do have to do with our laws? > > There ARE agreements for the conduct of war, called the Geneva > > Conventions. So have the U.S. Congress declare are on SOMEBODY. > > > > On May 15, 5:42�pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Where was it? Ramallah (sp?) where two Israeli soldiers strayed and > > > were literally torn apart? Parties involved have to agree on terms. > > > > > On May 14, 9:16 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > rigs, > > > > > > Why should they? It's the AMERICAN Civil Liberties Union. BTW, what > > > > does the ACLU have to do with this post? > > > > The concern here is breaking AMERICAN criminal laws and the UCMJ. > > > > > > On May 14, 7:31 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I doubt al queda debates the bs of the ACLU. > > > > > > > On May 14, 7:26 am, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Nothing yet from the Bush torture apologists? > > > > > > > > I guess Rush hasn't told them what to think yet..... > > > > > > > > On May 13, 9:03 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The excuses, the rationalizations, the lies all of this to > avoid > > > > > > > war crime trials for torture, torture that a SUCCESSFUL > interogator > > > > > > > swore under oath, did not work! > > > > > > > > > OH and the CIA interogator who said that water boarding DID > > > > > > > break Abu Zubaydah in seconds, recanted his statement, it > appears > > > > > > > not only wasn't he present but he was mistaken about what he > was > > > > > > > told! > > > > > > > > > On May 13, 8:09 pm, VT Sean Lewis <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Harsh interrogation techniques ineffective,' former FBI agent > > > > > > > > testifies > > > > > > > > > > By WARREN P. STROBEL > > > > > > > > McClatchy Newspapers > > > > > > > > A former FBI special agent who interrogated senior al-Qaida > captives > > > > > > > > told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that harsh > > > > > > > > interrogation techniques are "ineffective, slow and > unreliable," and > > > > > > > > disputed claims by former Vice President Dick Cheney and > others that > > > > > > > > they helped uncover major terrorist plots. > > > > > > > > > > Ali Soufan, a veteran FBI investigator, said that CIA > officials and > > > > > > > > others responsible for the extreme measures inflated the > program's > > > > > > > > successes and downplayed the consequences of physical abuse. > > > > > > > > > > "The situation was, and remains, too risky to allow someone > to > > > > > > > > experiment with amateurish, Hollywood-style interrogation > methods that > > > > > > > > in reality taints sources, risks outcomes, ignores the end > game and > > > > > > > > diminishes our moral high ground," Soufan said. > > > > > > > > > > "It was one of the worst and most harmful decisions made in > our > > > > > > > > efforts against al-Qaida," he said. > > > > > > > > > > Former State Department official Philip Zelikow, who in 2005 > was > > > > > > > > Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's point man in a battle > to > > > > > > > > overhaul the Bush administration's detention and > interrogation > > > > > > > > policies, joined Soufan in criticizing the use of techniques > such as > > > > > > > > waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that's widely > considered > > > > > > > > torture. > > > > > > > > > > Zelikow said the U.S. could combat terrorism without > resorting to > > > > > > > > extreme methods. > > > > > > > > > > "Others may disagree," he said. "The government, and the > country, > > > > > > > > needs to decide whether they are right. If they are right, > our laws > > > > > > > > must change, and our country must change. I think they are > wrong." > > > > > > > > > > Cheney has argued that the now-defunct CIA program, which > included a > > > > > > > > global network of secret prisons, produced valuable > intelligence that > > > > > > > > thwarted terror attacks and saved American lives. > > > > > > > > > > Cheney, who's scheduled to give a major speech on the subject > next > > > > > > > > week at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative > Washington > > > > > > > > policy organization, has called for the release of two > classified CIA > > > > > > > > memos that he says detail the program's successes. > > > > > > > > > > However, Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., a member of the Senate > Judiciary > > > > > > > > and Intelligence committees, said he's seen the two documents > and they > > > > > > > > don't prove Cheney's case. > > > > > > > > > > Soufan's testimony apparently was the first public appraisal > by a > > > > > > > > senior U.S. government interrogator who dealt directly with > suspected > > > > > > > > terrorists in CIA custody. > > > > > > > > > > It came a month after President Barack Obama released four > Bush-era > > > > > > > > Justice Department legal memos justifying methods that > included > > > > > > > > confinement boxes, sleep deprivation and slamming detainees > into > > > > > > > > walls. That reopened the debate over whether top Bush > officials should > > > > > > > > be investigated and prosecuted for their actions. > > > > > > > > > > Adding to the drama, Soufan testified from behind a screen > where the > > > > > > > > senators, but not the audience, could see him. Since at least > one > > > > > > > > photo of Soufan is available on the Internet, the reason for > the > > > > > > > > security measures wasn't readily apparent. > > > > > > > > > > Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., who's also an Air Force Reserve > lawyer, > > > > > > > > said the Bush administration erred in its reading of the law > but > > > > > > > > argued that harsh interrogation techniques sometimes produce > valuable > > > > > > > > information. > > > > > > > > > > He challenged Soufan to dispute that. > > > > > > > > > > "I can only speak to my experience," the former FBI agent > replied. > > > > > > > > > > "That's the point, isn't it?" Graham retorted. > > > > > > > > > > Soufan was a lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah, one of > the first > > > > > > > > major al-Qaida figures to be captured after the Sept. 11, > 2001, > > > > > > > > terrorist attacks. The initial interrogation of Zubaydah, > using the > > > > > > > > bureau's traditional, rapport-building techniques, yielded > valuable > > > > > > > > intelligence, including the role of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as > the > > > > > > > > mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks, he said. > > > > > > > > > > Then-CIA director George Tenet congratulated the > interrogators - until > > > > > > > > he learned that they were from the FBI, not the CIA, Soufan > said. A > > > > > > > > team from the CIA's Counterterrorism Center that included a > government > > > > > > > > contractor quickly replaced him and his colleagues. They > introduced > > > > > > > > harsh interrogation techniques, and Zubaydah's cooperation > stopped, > > > > > > > > Soufan said. > > > > > > > > > > After complaints from officials in Washington about the > dried-up > > > > > > > > intelligence flow, Soufan and colleagues reverted to the > traditional > > > > > > > > approach, and Zubaydah began talking again. > > > > > > > > > > To bolster the Democrats' case against torture, Sen. Sheldon > > > > > > > > Whitehouse, D-R.I., released summaries of Soufan's > interrogations of > > > > > > > > another al-Qaida figure, Abu Jandal, who was a bodyguard to > Osama bin > > > > > > > > Laden. Without being tortured, Jandal divulged intimate > details and > > > > > > > > personal histories of bin Laden's inner circle, the 100 pages > of > > > > > > > > documents appear to show. > > > > > > > > > > The hearing took place amid an escalating political fracas > over what > > > > > > > > congressional Democrats knew at the time about the CIA > program. > > > > > > > > Republicans say that documents call into question House > Speaker Nancy > > > > > > > > Pelosi's contention that she wasn't briefed about > waterboarding. > > > > > > > > > > Zelikow called the CIA program "a collective failure, in > which a > > > > > > > > number of officials and members of Congress (and staffers), > of both > > > > > > > > parties, played a part." > > > > > > > > > > Zelikow wrote a classified February 2006 memo challenging the > legal > > > > > > > > reasoning of the Justice Department's Office of Legal > Counsel. The > > > > > > > > White House responded by ordering copies of the memo > destroyed, but > > > > > > > > Zelikow said his six-page document has been retrieved from > State > > > > > > > > Department files and is undergoing declassification review. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/v-print/story/1047093.html > > > > > > > > > > The Senate Judiciary Committee hearing: > http://judiciary.senate.gov/hearings/hearing.cfm?id=3842-Hidequotedtext- > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > -- Mark M. Kahle, , www.filacoffee.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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