Hey Sean!! Actually, I thought my post was rather witty!!
In all honesty, you seem like a bright, intelligent, (I am assuming younger than me) man. It is one thing to question our governments' policies, and quite another to jump on a traitorous bandwagon, accusing our President, (any President!) during a time of war, of war crimes. I have nothing else to say on the subject. Based on all of the information that has been released to date, I don't believe that we ever "tortured" anyone. That this is just a hyped up term used by far left extremists who are either uninformed, and/or have an Anti-American agenda. One or the other.... Until such time as more information has been released, (which initially I was opposed to, but now, because the Obama Administration chose to release the several Memoranda by Bybee and Bradbury) I want to see everything released, including the documents from July 2004 that former Vice President Cheney has requested be released. Until such time, I can add nothing to the conversation.....I've said my piece, both here in PF, as well as that Den of Moonbats, Euwetopia. On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:43 PM, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]>wrote: > > That was the best you could do? > > Keith you want to try again? > > On May 16, 1:38 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 12:53 PM, VT Sean Lewis > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > > > The shifting denial about torture. > > > > > May 16, 2009 > > > Sean Lewis > > > > > Torture is just one more nail into the coffin > > > for the Republican Party. > > > > > Cheney is just trying to protect himself and > > > doing preemptive damage control. It is clear > > > the torture policy was his decision. Cheney > > > is hoping for another terror attack so he can > > > be vindicated the same way the entire GOP > > > party wants President Obama to fail so the > > > GOP policies can be vindicated. > > > > > The water down spin on torture is that water > > > boarding is not torture. Dunking someones > > > head is hardly torture, it is like getting baptised! > > > The rough questioning was needed to get results! > > > > > However a few things are being left out, 98 > > > dead prisoners, the torture did not work, and > > > torture is against the both US and International > > > law. > > > > > If all the CIA was doing was 'questioning' prisoners > > > why was a doctor needed to be present? > > > > > I have been questioned by the police, no doctor was present. > > > > > In previous questioning by the FBI, no doctor was present, > > > so what changed? > > > > > What changed was there was now a chance that the prisoner > > > might die from the harsh interrogation. In fact 98 prisoners > > > who were being held for 'questioning died. > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/04/98-prisoners-died-in-us-. > .. > > > > > This article had 623 footnotes verifying the deaths. > > >http://www.humanrightsfirst.info/pdf/06221-etn-hrf-dic-rep-web.pdf > > > I posted one of those footnotes at the end of this article. > > > > > The Torture Apologists want you to believe that water boarding > > > is not dangerous, problem is water boarding wasn't the only > > > harsh treatment the prisoners received. A point the Torture Apologist > > > conveniently do not bring up. Also if it wasn't torture > > > explain the 98 dead prisoners? > > > > > Next comes the issue of why the prisoners were being tortured > > > and what were the results of the torture. > > > > > We were told that the torture was to protect Americans from future > > > attack, and that valuable information came as a result of the torture. > > > This was after we were told that the US does not torture by the way. > > > > > The truth is that the CIA was torturing prisoners. not to protect > > > America or Americans, but to find a connection between Iraq and > > > 9/11 or a connection between Iraq and Al qaeda. This was to > > > give cover to the Bush Administration after no WMD's were found > > > in Iraq. > > > > > The torture how ever did not work, In fact it had the opposite effect. > > > Prisoners who were cooperating and freely giving valuable Intel about > > > Al qaeda without torture to the FBI, stopped cooperation when the > > > CIA began torturing them about non existent connections between > > > Iraq and 9/11 or Iraq and Al Qaeda. > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/timeline-history-of-hars. > .. > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/report-links-cia-to-mili. > .. > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/harsh-interrogation-tech. > .. > > > > > The legality of torture is, there is none. The Bush Administration > > > knew > > > this so in an effort to do a work around, the Bush Administration > > > redefined the status of the prisoners to a classification the Bush > > > Administration > > > deemed outside of the Geneva Convention. > > > > > Next came the justification of 'Harsh Interrogation' because of the > > > 'ticking > > > time bomb' scenario. The White House ordered White House attorneys to > > > write briefs not only saying that harsh interrogation was not torture, > > > but > > > instances when harsh interrogation was prudent and advised. > > > > > Two problems with this, the need for a doctor during 'questioning' and > > > the > > > 98 dead prisoners, also the questioning of the prisoners had nothing > > > to > > > do with an imminent threat that was time sensitive. It was about > > > getting > > > back fill Intel to justify the Iraq invasion. > > > > > Currently the Torture Apologists are trying to say that key democratic > > > leaders > > > were also culpable in the torture. The belief is, if everyone is > > > guilty then > > > no one is guilty. The Torture Apologists are floating out the Pelosi > > > knew > > > so it;s her fault the torture occurred. > > > > > The CIA said that the Leaders of the Democratic and Republican Parties > > > were > > > briefed about the torture already being used against prisoners. When > > > asked > > > for the dates of the briefings, the CIA gave four dates two in April > > > of '02, > > > two in September." When these dates were checked, it was discovered > > > that > > > three of these meetings never occurred. The fourth meeting was on the > > > topic > > > of prisoner interrogation. The CIA says they INFORMED the Leaders of > > > the > > > torture, even though it was already occurring without Congressional > > > Approval > > > or Knowledge for a month or more. The Congressional Leaders disagree > > > with > > > these facts and based on the erroneous dates already supplied, one has > > > to > > > wonder what else the CIA has wrong? > > > > >http://opendebateforum2.blogspot.com/2009/05/floridas-graham-backs-pe. > .. > > > > > So the Torture Apologists have shifted reasons for Torture each time > > > their > > > reasons have been proven to be flawed or wrong. This is reminiscent of > > > the reasons > > > to invade Iraq. The Apologists have claimed there was no torture, that > > > the torture > > > wasn't limited, that the torture was needed to protect America and > > > finally that the > > > torture approved of by the Democratic leaders so it was OK. > > > > > The one thing the Torture Apologists keep forgetting is this. Torture > > > is illegal, > > > both domestically and internationally and that America is better than > > > this. > > > > > 321 See DIC Table: Unknown 1 (died in November 2002 in Afghanistan > > > “Salt Pit” prison of hypothermia after being chained to the floor and > > > left without blankets; official cause of death not released); Naseer > > > (allegedly tortured to death by Army Special Forces soldiers in Mar. > > > 2003; official investigation findings not released); al-Sumaidae > > > (unarmed 21-year-old student allegedly killed in cold blood in June > > > 2005 by > > > Marine during a search of his home; case referred to Navy criminal > > > investigators 10 days after death); Dababa (June 2003 autopsy > > > indicates body covered by bruises and at least 50 abrasions, with head > > > and neck suffering the most significant abuses, resulting in > > > hemorrhaging throughout his brain; official cause of death not > > > announced); Kenami (death after detainee subjected to extreme > > > exercise, > > > cuffed, hooded and left in overcrowded cell; cause officially > > > undetermined); al-Izmerly (chief of forensics at Baghdad Hospital > > > found > > > January 2004 death was due to “massive blow” to head; investigation > > > pending); Unknown 15 (U.S. forces allege male shot during home > > > raid while reaching for a pistol; family alleges he was a physically > > > disabled old man and reportedly provides medical records indicating a > > > spinal condition or degeneration; no criminal investigation or any > > > other action appears to have been initiated); Nasef Ibrahim (military > > > ruled > > > death due to natural causes; son, with him at the time, filed lawsuit > > > alleging death from abuse); Khan (military initially stated death due > > > to > > > heart attack, until press reports of snakebite; family alleges abuse; > > > no medical or other investigation records released since death in > > > September 2004); A. Najem (military ruled death from natural causes > > > after hunger strike, but no medical records or interviews in support); > > > Zaid (U.S.-conducted autopsy stated accidental death from heat stroke; > > > army official stated possibility that Zaid was not given enough > > > water or proper care). Human Rights First asked the Department of > > > Defense on January 20 and 26, 2006 the status of the investigations > > > and any prosecutions in the following cases for which, as of February > > > 10, we had received no response: Naseer; al-Sumaidae; Dababa; > > > Kenami [sought comment on medical expert finding that death caused by > > > suffocation]; al-Izmerly; Ibrahim; Khan; Zaid. > > > > > > > > Lil'Moonbat.Sean'Sugarshack'VirtualTruth.ALeaderAmongMoonbats.jpg > > 256KViewDownload > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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