Your rebuttal was already addressed and answered in the original post. I KNEW this was what you torture Apologists would try....LMAO!
On May 20, 4:52 pm, jgg1000a <[email protected]> wrote: > Except Pelosi admits she was told in 2003... The difference here is a > pretend fig-leaf.... Did she know while remaining silent OR taking > no action??? The answer here is yes... > > On May 20, 4:45 pm, VT VirtualTruth <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Update.... > > Both Sen. John Rockefeller (D-W.Va.) and former Sen. Bob Graham (D- > > Fla.), former chairmen of the Senate intelligence committee, have > > challenged the accuracy of the CIA records on briefings on the > > detainee program, buttressing Pelosi’s claim that she was told during > > that 2002 briefing only that “enhanced interrogation techniques” were > > authorized for use, not that they were employed. > > > House Appropriations Committee Chairman Dave Obey. The Wisconsin > > Democrat released a letter to CIA Director Leon Panetta saying that > > the same CIA records that said Pelosi was briefed on waterboarding > > also said that an Appropriations Committee staffer had attended an > > agency briefing in 2006. In fact, Panetta said, the aide was prevented > > from attending. > > > The CIA first briefed Congress on torture on September 4, 2002, 35 > > days after CIA purportedly began waterboarding and much longer after > > we know CIA started torturing Abu Zubaydah. Moreover, we have on the > > record statements from Pelosi and Goss (and I've had even stronger > > assurances elsewhere) that CIA did not tell Congress they were already > > in the business of torture. Their discussions of torture were all > > prospective, and they may even have stated clearly that they had not > > used these techniques yet, which (if true) would be a clear and direct > > lie to Congress. > > > Second, look at when--according to the CIA's specific assertions--they > > first talked about waterboarding to members of Congress: > > > February 4, 2003: Pat Roberts and a Republican and a Democratic > > staffer (but not Jello Jay); according to the CIA there was no > > specific mention of waterboarding in the February 5, 2003 briefing for > > Porter Goss and Jane Harman > > > July 13, 2004: Porter Goss and Jane Harman > > > July 15, 2004: Pat Roberts and Jello Jay > > > Now, it's possible that the people trying to smear Pelosi with this > > are correct and CIA mentioned waterboarding in September 2002. But > > that's not what the CIA says. Once you account for the fact that Jello > > Jay did not attend the February 4 briefing, the CIA says it first > > informed Democrats about waterboarding in July 2004, only after the > > CIA's own Inspector General had declared the program cruel and inhuman > > (and note, the Senate intelligence leaders, at least, got a copy of > > that document in June 2004, so the CIA couldn't very well pretend that > > they hadn't been waterboarding). > > > Note, too, that the CIA claims to have discussed legal issues in the > > July briefing with Harman and Goss, but not in the July briefing with > > Jello Jay and Roberts. We know this to be false. > > > In July 2004, the CIA briefed the Chairman and Vice Chairman of > > the Committee on the facts and conclusions of the Inspector General > > special review. The CIA indicated at that time that it was seeking > > OLC’s legal analysis on whether the program was consistent with the > > substantive provisions of Article 16 of the Convention Against > > Torture. > > > Given the way the SSCI narrative focuses on the constitutional > > amendments named under CAT (the 5th, 8th, and 14th), I suspect CIA was > > informed in no uncertain terms they would have to account for these in > > the briefing. If they did not record the fact, it suggests they were > > trying to claim deniability for that key issue (though that is > > speculative on my part). > > > The CIA seems to have no memory of the details of the 2005 briefings > > (and, as WO has pointed out, seems to have been unsure who was HPSCI > > Chair and who was DCIA, since it claims that Porter Goss, then head of > > CIA, attended a March 8, 2004 2005 [ed--fixed late, sorry] hearing as > > HPSCI Chair). That's rather curious as Mary McCarthy has alleged that > > the CIA briefers in two hearings in 2005 lied to Congress. At least > > one of these briefings would have also featured the Senators asking > > why they fuck OLC ignored the 8th Amendment (and the CAT generally) in > > its December 2004 opinion. It includes briefings when Jello Jay was > > beginning to ask for more details on the torture program, to no avail. > > And, finally, it includes briefings when Congress should have been > > briefed about the destroyed torture tapes, but wasn't. All of that? > > The CIA seems to have little memory of it. > > > Then there's the slew of Republican-only briefings in 2005, just after > > the Senate approved the McCain Amendment limiting torture use. As I've > > explained the most suspicious of those is the briefing of the two pro- > > torture Republicans holding DOD's purse strings. > > > Until, finally, in 2006, it finally gets around to briefing the full > > intelligence committees but not yet the full Gang of Eight, leaving > > off the House leadership, including Nancy Pelosi. Anyone wonder why > > Jane Harman got her very own briefing on September 6, 2006, the day > > Bush finally came clean as a tortuer? I do. > > > In short, in spite of what Republicans tell you (and therefore ABC > > prints), this is actually an utter damning chronology of CIA contempt > > for their obligations to inform Congress (particularly Democrats in > > Congress) > > > On May 17, 3:52 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Holly, > > > > How you gathered that I somehow suggested this, from any of my posts, is > > > just amazing. I have never suggested anything of the sort. As a matter > > > of > > > fact, the recent information released by the Obama Administration > > > demostrates that the CIA was methodical and quite careful to insure that > > > they were within the confines of the law. > > > > My point is simple. There was no authorized torture, period. The United > > > States Army, (or any of our military branches) do not have the means nor > > > the capability to utilize enhanced interrogation techniques. The Army is > > > limited by the guidelines listed in the Army Field Manual, as it should > > > be. Those who violated the written military policy should be prosceuted, > > > as they were. > > > > The CIA is not limited to the Army Field Manual, and great as stated, the > > > CIA as well as the Bush Administration went to great lengths and extreme > > > measures to insure that the CIA did not cross the proverbial > > > line.....There > > > was no "torture" while administering enhanced interrogation techniques. > > > I > > > say this after extensive study of the facts and information that has been > > > released to date. It is my qualified opinion that the enhanced > > > interrogation techniques did not constitute torture. I say this without > > > any > > > partisanship whatsoever. My opinion could change, if there is more > > > evidence that is released that may in fact constitute "torture" but to > > > date, > > > we have seen no such evidence. > > > > Sean is a Moonbat. He has no understanding of what actually took place or > > > transpired, and I would surmise that he has not even read the Memoranda > > > by Jay Bybee, Steven Bradbury, John Yoo, or the "Rumsfeld Defense > > > Department > > > Working Group". All Sugarshack can do, and all Sugarshack has done, is > > > mimic those very partisan individuals who are on a hate campaign against > > > the > > > former Administration, but have to date, not attempted to attach any legal > > > precepts or rational, cognitive critical thinking to their argument. > > > "Torture" is an easy, fun word for folks like Sean to sling out, yet they > > > have no clue what the legal definition of torture is. > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Hollywood > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > KIT, > > > > > What are you saying? That the CIA operates completely outside U.S. > > > > civil and criminal codes AND the UCMJ and is not subject to ANY of > > > > those codes, regulations or laws? > > > > > On May 17, 9:17 am, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Sean, > > > > > > So, this is really what it boils down to, as I suspicioned. What you > > > > > are > > > > > really saying is, "I Hate Bush, But I Don't Know Why". > > > > > > What transpired at Abu Gharib is not at all what transpired with > > > > > enhanced > > > > > interrogation techniques by the CIA. The Army has no mechanism other > > > > than > > > > > the Army Field Manual to interrogate prisoners. Those individuals > > > > > were > > > > > prosecuted because they were outside of Army regulations. > > > > > > On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 3:26 AM, VT VirtualTruth > > > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > > > If we tried the little guys for what happened at Abu Gharib > > > > > > then the precedent has already been set for the ENTIRE > > > > > > Bush Administration. > > > > > > > I believe Nixon was also Impeached for his crimes > > > > > > during the Vietnam war. > > > > > > > Nixon resigned rather than face impeachment for his crimes > > > > > > while in office, and Republicans pushed all out to impeach > > > > > > Clinton while in office about a lie over a BJ. > > > > > > > So both your reasons for calling me a traitor have both been > > > > > > proven false based on previous precedent. > > > > > > > You have nothing left to say, because you have run > > > > > > out of realistic arguments. > > > > > > > On May 16, 4:47 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Sean!! > > > > > > > > Actually, I thought my post was rather witty!! > > > > > > > > In all honesty, you seem like a bright, intelligent, (I am > > > > > > > assuming > > > > > > younger > > > > > > > than me) man. It is one thing to question our governments' > > > > policies, > > > > > > and > > > > > > > quite another to jump on a traitorous bandwagon, accusing our > > > > President, > > > > > > > (any President!) during a time of war, of war crimes. > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest breaking news, and more. -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
