I agree, Hollywood. I can't really understand the suspension of reason in humans as they make "knee-jerk" responses for or against something based on nothing more than their accepted and unexamined beliefs.
On Jun 26, 1:23 pm, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > Richard, > > Of course it's silly. But it has absolutely no impact upon my life, > city, county, state or country. It's the private affair of a family I > don't know in a distant foreign country. I've no idea in the world why > Travis posts such things and comes to the absurd conclusion that the > entire country of Sweden is somehow a "laughing stock". > i think it's simply because his perception of Sweden is that it's a > very liberal country and he finds that reason enough to criticize it > any way he can think of. Quite bizzare really. > > Only thing that counts in my book is whether or not Michael & Amy live > happy and productive lives w/o hurting anyone else. > > On Jun 26, 1:13 pm, RICHARD BROWN <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Decades ago there was a small book about a child the parents simply > > named "X" and they kept the gender secret. The same thing as the > > article described happened. At the end they had another child they > > named, "Y". It made the point, but the parents were still silly in > > the book as well as in this case. But it would be as foolish to judge > > the Swedish people for the actions of these parents as it would to > > judge Americans because the book was written, published and promoted > > in America. > > My oldest son was very well behaved and quite good looking. He looks > > a lot like Kevin Klien. He did not fight as he had been taught that > > violence was not the solution to any problem. He was constantly > > mistaken as a female. My youngest daughter was a tom-boy and wore her > > hair short and was constantly mistaken as a male. When we visited > > Mexico on a trip through a garden, our guide handed out flowers to all > > the females. Michael got one but Amy didn't. :-) > > Dik > > > On Jun 25, 11:56 am, Hollywood <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Travis, > > > > So? > > > > On Jun 25, 10:36 am, Travis <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > 2-year old doesn't know if it is a boy or girl. > > > > > From: *Travis* > > > > Date: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 > > > > Subject: Sweden is Laughing-stock > > > > > 1. Sweden's welfare state, supported by tax rates of 60+ percent on > > > > those > > > > of its citizens who actually work, has halted all economic innovation > > > > 2. Its > > > > immigration policies, coupled with the extremely low fertility rates of > > > > Swedish women, have begun to transform drastically Swedish society and > > > > culture 3. Immigrant crime rates, particularly in Sweden's third-largest > > > > city, Malmö, are staggeringly high. > > > > See:http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-a.... > > > > But it's good to see that folks like those described below are raising > > > > their > > > > children in ways that will help address such public crises Swedish > > > > parents > > > > keep 2-year-old's gender secret > > > > > Published: 23 Jun 09 16:24 CET > > > > Online:http://www.thelocal.se/20232/20090623/ > > > > > Dictionary tool Double click on a word to get a translation > > > > >http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?ID=20232&print=true > > > > > Meet Pop, a two-and-a-half-year-old Swedish child whose parents are > > > > refusing > > > > to say whether the apple of their eye is a boy or a girl. > > > > Pop’s parents, both 24, made a decision when their baby was born to keep > > > > Pop’s sex a secret. Aside from a select few – those who have changed the > > > > child’s diaper – nobody knows Pop’s gender; if anyone enquires, Pop’s > > > > parents simply say they don’t disclose this information. > > > > > In an interview with newspaper Svenska Dagbladet in March, the parents > > > > were > > > > quoted saying their decision was rooted in the feminist philosophy that > > > > gender is a social construction. > > > > > “We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a > > > > specific > > > > gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother said. “It's cruel to bring a > > > > child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.” > > > > > The child's parents said so long as they keep Pop’s gender a secret, he > > > > or > > > > she will be able to avoid preconceived notions of how people should be > > > > treated if male or female. > > > > > Pop's wardrobe includes everything from dresses to trousers and Pop's > > > > hairstyle changes on a regular basis. And Pop usually decides how Pop is > > > > going to dress on a given morning. > > > > > Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy > > > > and a > > > > girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the > > > > child > > > > – they just say Pop. > > > > > "I believe that the self-confidence and personality that Pop has shaped > > > > will > > > > remain for a lifetime," said Pop's mother. > > > > > But while Pop’s parents say they have received supportive feedback from > > > > many > > > > of their peers, not everyone agrees that their chosen course of action > > > > will > > > > have a positive outcome. > > > > > “Ignoring children's natures simply doesn’t work,” says Susan Pinker, a > > > > psychologist and newspaper columnist from Toronto, Canada, who wrote the > > > > book The Sexual Paradox, which focuses on sex differences in the > > > > workplace. > > > > > “Child-rearing should not be about providing an opportunity to prove an > > > > ideological point, but about responding to each child’s needs as an > > > > individual,” Pinker tells The Local. > > > > > “It’s unlikely that they’ll be able to keep this a secret for long. > > > > Children > > > > are curious about their own identity, and are likely to gravitate > > > > towards > > > > others of the same sex during free play time in early childhood.” > > > > > Pinker says there are many ways that males and females differ from > > > > birth; > > > > even if gender is kept ‘secret,’ prenatal hormones developed in the > > > > second > > > > trimester of pregnancy already alter the way the child behaves and > > > > feels. > > > > > She says once children can speak, males tell aggressive stories 87 per > > > > cent > > > > of the time, while females only 17 per cent. In a study, children aged > > > > two > > > > to four were given a task to work together for a reward, and boys used > > > > physical tactics 50 times more than girls, she says. > > > > > But Swedish gender equality consultant Kristina Henkel says Pop’s > > > > parents' > > > > experiment might have positive results. > > > > > “If the parents are doing this because they want to create a discussion > > > > with > > > > other adults about why gender is important, then I think they can make a > > > > point of it,” Henkel says in a telephone interview with The Local. > > > > > “You can talk about there being a non-stereotypical gender; if you are a > > > > girl you can do the same as a boy, and if you’re a boy you can do the > > > > same > > > > as a girl.” > > > > > Henkel also says a child's sex can deeply affect how they are treated > > > > growing up, and distract them from simply being a human being. > > > > > “If the child is dressed up as a girl or boy, it affects them because > > > > people > > > > see and treat them in a more gender-typical way,” Henkel explains. > > > > > “Girls are told they are cute in their dresses, and boys are told they > > > > are > > > > cool with their car toys. But if you give them no gender they will be > > > > seen > > > > more as a human or not a stereotype as a boy or girl.” > > > > > She says that without these gender stereotypes, children can build > > > > character > > > > as individuals, not hindered by preconceived notions of what they > > > > should be > > > > as males or females. > > > > > “I think that can make these kids stronger,” Henkel says. > > > > > Anna Nordenström, a paediatric endocrinologist at Karolinska Institutet, > > > > says it’s hard to know what effects the parents' decision will have on > > > > Pop. > > > > > “It will affect the child, but it’s hard to say if it will hurt the > > > > child,” > > > > says Nordenström, who studies hormonal influences on gender development. > > > > > “I don’t know what they are trying to achieve. It’s going to make the > > > > child > > > > different, make them very special.” > > > > > She says if Pop is still ‘genderless’ by the time he or she starts > > > > school, > > > > Pop will certainly receive a lot of attention from classmates. > > > > > “We don’t know exactly what determines sexual identity, but it’s not > > > > only > > > > sexual upbringing,” says Nordenström. “Gender-typical behaviour, sexual > > > > preferences and sexual identity usually go together. There are hormonal > > > > and > > > > other influences that we don’t know that will determine the gender of > > > > the > > > > child.” > > > > > Both Nordenström and Pinker refer to a controversial case from 1967 > > > > when a > > > > circumcision left one of two twin brothers without a penis. Dr. John > > > > Money, > > > > who asserted that gender was learned rather than innate, convinced the > > > > parents to raise 'David' as 'Brenda' and the child had cosmetic > > > > genitalia > > > > reconstruction surgery. > > > > > She was raised as a female, with girls’ clothes, games and codes of > > > > behaviour. The parents never told Brenda the secret until she was a > > > > teenager > > > > and rebelled against femininity. She then started receiving testosterone > > > > injections and underwent another genetic reconstruction process to > > > > become > > > > David again. David Reimer denounced the experiment as a crushing failure > > > > before committing suicide at the age of 38. > > > > > “I don’t think that trying to keep a child’s sex a secret will fool > > > > anyone, > > > > nor do I think it’s wise or ethical,” says Pinker. “As with any family > > > > secret, when we try to keep an elemental truth from children, it usually > > > > blows up in the parent’s face, via psychosomatic illness or rebellious > > > > behaviour.” > > > > > But with a second child on the way, Pop's parents have no plans to > > > > change > > > > what they see as a winning formula. As for Pop, they say they will only > > > > reveal the child's sex when Pop thinks it's time. > > > > > *Footnote: Pop is not the child's > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups. 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