They had problems with wind farms and agriculture, especially cattle and 
sheep, in Britain.  Quite a few court cases about it over there.  I know 
we have a whole lot more area to put things but it is still something 
that needs to be considered.

Mark wrote:
> Agriculture works just fine under the wind mills and the birds do have 
> eyes.
>
> On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 10:52 AM, dick thompson 
> <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
>     But they will and you know they will.  We will find the equivalent
>     of spiking trees by groups like ELF sabotaging the windmills and
>     solar panels because of the migratory birds.   And I would assume
>     West Texas is also good  for other things as well.  Don't they
>     have agriculture there now?  Where are you going to put that?
>
>     RichardForbes wrote:
>>     West Texas would be an option, if the ecologists don't ruin it by
>>     worrying about migratory birds.
>>
>>     On Jun 28, 10:46 am, dick thompson <[email protected]> 
>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>       
>>>     Where are you going to put all of them.  When you look at what they
>>>     produce from acres of solar panels and windmills, which are dependent on
>>>     the wind blowing at a certain minimum speed even to work at all and then
>>>     the noise they make disturbs the fauna of the area, what would be enough
>>>     of them.  Add to that all the NIMBY of those who live where the
>>>     windmills would work andyou have a problem, especially when the NIMBY
>>>     folks are congressmen and senators (Kerry, Kennedy, Frank, Markey ring a
>>>     bell?).  Then there is the storage and transportation problem of the
>>>     product which is not working well yet either.  I can see doing research
>>>     on these methods but I cannot see stopping the production of what we
>>>     know works and the outlawing of other means of production which we know
>>>     can produce what is required while the research is going on.  That is
>>>     what has been going on with out congressmen and senators and the
>>>     no-drilling legislation.  We hear that it will take 10 years to bring
>>>     the wells on line - and we have been hearing this for years now.  If
>>>     they had drilled when the subject first came up, the wells would be
>>>     online now and we would not be dependent on foreign oil now but I guess
>>>     our betters missed that point.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Mark wrote:
>>>         
>>>>     Gee dick.... there are not enough of them...
>>>>           
>>>>     On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 10:26 AM, dick thompson
>>>>     <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>           
>>>>         And they are not capable of meeting even a small percentage of the
>>>>         US use of electricity.  Nor will they be able to in the near 
>>>> future.
>>>>           
>>>>         I was talking about the carbon credits.  The credits are used to
>>>>         plant trees, not windmills.  Guess you missed that point.
>>>>           
>>>>         Mark wrote:
>>>>           
>>>>>         Dick,
>>>>>             
>>>>>         Just what are you talking about..... Alternative energy sources
>>>>>         exist NOW. just go to Palm Springs and look at the hill sides...
>>>>>         anybody can count the numbers of wind turbines.. no science
>>>>>         involved. A geo-thermal plant is easily identified as is a
>>>>>         nuclear plant and a hydoelectric dam, hearing people KNOW the
>>>>>         difference between an electric car and a gas/diesel motor (the
>>>>>         deaf look for the tail pipe or lack thereof)  There is NO mystery
>>>>>         in accountability. You simply use oil profits to put itself out
>>>>>         of business.
>>>>>             
>>>>>         On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 9:36 AM, dick thompson
>>>>>         <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>             
>>>>>             How would you do that and how would you enforce it.
>>>>>             
>>>>>             Reminds me of the carbon trade/carbon credits scam.  You pay
>>>>>             x amount of dollars to plant trees somewhere and that gives
>>>>>             you the right to trash the regulatory laws about energy use.
>>>>>             At what point do you prove that those dollars actually
>>>>>             planted trees that are going to be taken care of and replace
>>>>>             the carbon you used up.  That part of the equation is
>>>>>             missing.  Do you think that those peons who plant the trees
>>>>>             are going to insure that they grow and prosper?  If you don't
>>>>>             enforce the one side of the equation, then you do not have an
>>>>>             equation at all, you have a scam, and that is what it is.
>>>>>             Same principle with your suggestion.  I can throw x amount of
>>>>>             dollars at alternate energy source research but unless it is
>>>>>             actually tracked to make sure it is used as it is supposed to
>>>>>             be then it is garbage.  Look at the AGW conference that was
>>>>>             held earlier this year.  They held it in Bali and the
>>>>>             attendees all flew in on their private jets for a week of
>>>>>             swanning around a fancy resort and making soundbites about
>>>>>             all the good they were doing.  Then they got back in their
>>>>>             private jets and flew elsewhere to tell us we need to
>>>>>             conserve energy and use one sheet of toilet paper and pay
>>>>>             twice as much in gas tax and pay more for heating and cooling
>>>>>             because it is for the good of the environment and for the
>>>>>             cheeellllddddrrrreeeennnn.  Thank you Algore.
>>>>>             
>>>>>             THE ANNOINTED ONE wrote:
>>>>>             
>>>>>>             Keith, who owns and therefore profits from oil exploration 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>             subsequent drilling has EVERYTHING to do with whether or not 
>>>>>> it is
>>>>>>             actually done or even allowed. If the Gringo-American people 
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>             had a vested interest in oil and its profits (not just the 
>>>>>> taxes from
>>>>>>             its use) you could bet that derricks would be springing up 
>>>>>> all over
>>>>>>             the place as well as refineries and piping systems. Why 
>>>>>> should they
>>>>>>             take the chance on despoiling the natural beauty of an area 
>>>>>> just to
>>>>>>             have a multinational take the money and run ??  Unfettered 
>>>>>> drilling
>>>>>>             and profit taking by oil that stayed at home would be a 
>>>>>> great boon and
>>>>>>             even the looneys know that and would, I'm sure, be in favor 
>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>             if a portion of that profit would be used solely for 
>>>>>> developing
>>>>>>             alternative energy and eventually CLOSING the wells and 
>>>>>> refineries.
>>>>>>             The Chinese get it.... but they despoil OTHER countries and 
>>>>>> areas to
>>>>>>             accomplish the goal of garnering profit for their Government.
>>>>>>               
>>>>>>             On Jun 27, 6:02 pm, Keith In Tampa <[email protected]> 
>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>             Holly,
>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>             I don't know what your comment has to do with our Nation 
>>>>>>> having a
>>>>>>>             comprehensive energy plan.   The Chinese at the behest of 
>>>>>>> Cuba is getting
>>>>>>>             ready to start drilling just a few miles off of our 
>>>>>>> coastline for oil.   We
>>>>>>>             are not, because of the current Administration, who has 
>>>>>>> refused to allow for
>>>>>>>             more oil exploration, and instead is "capping and trading" 
>>>>>>> energy, under
>>>>>>>             some policy based on fraudulent, non-existent scientific 
>>>>>>> data that claims we
>>>>>>>             are "Globally Warming".
>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>             Again, I haven't seen you up in arms about our current lack 
>>>>>>> of a
>>>>>>>             comprehensive energy plan.
>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>             On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Hollywood 
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>             KIT,
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>             The Chinese and Cubans are communists, they own the oil 
>>>>>>>> industry in
>>>>>>>>             their respective countries. They might well pay a private 
>>>>>>>> Corp. to
>>>>>>>>             explore for and even bring up the product (oil) but the 
>>>>>>>> Govt.'s of
>>>>>>>>             China & Cuba OWN it.
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>             On Jun 27, 5:33 pm, Keith In Tampa 
>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>             Why would we want the government involved in regulating 
>>>>>>>>> this?  Why would
>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>             we
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>             want the government involved in "capping or trading" 
>>>>>>>>> energy?
>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>             Why is our government not encouraging a Comprehensive 
>>>>>>>>> Energy Policy,
>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>             which
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>             promotes alternative energies while also attempting to 
>>>>>>>>> allow for private
>>>>>>>>>             entities to explore for more oil reserves, as are the 
>>>>>>>>> Chinese and Cubans
>>>>>>>>>             right off of our coast?
>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>>             On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, ConservativeJack <
>>>>>>>>>                     
>>>>>>>>              > [email protected] 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>             I don't see anything surprising here. Alternative Energy 
>>>>>>>>>> providers say
>>>>>>>>>>             this is a good thing and that it will all be peachy in 
>>>>>>>>>> the end.
>>>>>>>>>>             The companies that stand to lose billions or even 
>>>>>>>>>> eventually be put
>>>>>>>>>>             out of business, claim it's doom and gloom.
>>>>>>>>>>             What else would anyone expect to be said by the opposing 
>>>>>>>>>> sides?
>>>>>>>>>>             So the choice is I can believe one or the other, based 
>>>>>>>>>> on what I WANT
>>>>>>>>>>             to believe, or I can believe that both are stating 
>>>>>>>>>> things in terms
>>>>>>>>>>             that suit their own interests and that things will 
>>>>>>>>>> probably end up (as
>>>>>>>>>>             always) neither as bad or good as predicted.
>>>>>>>>>>                       
>>>>>>>>>>             On Jun 27, 10:35 am, dick thompson 
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]> 
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>                       
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>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>             Jun 27, 11:12 AM EDT
>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>             Winners and losers emerge in climate bill
>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>             By CHRIS KAHN
>>>>>>>>>>>             AP Energy Writer
>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>>>>>>             NEW YORK (AP) -- In addition to raising energy prices, 
>>>>>>>>>>> the climate
>>>>>>>>>>>             legislation that's winding through Congress would 
>>>>>>>>>>> create a parallel
>>>>>>>>>>>                         
>>>     ...
>>>
>>>     read more ยป- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>>     - Show quoted text -
>>>         
>>       
>
>
>     -- 
>     Mark M. Kahle,  ,
>     www.filacoffee.com <http://www.filacoffee.com>
>
>     >

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